Minority Report

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

I understand that hearing a minority report is a privilege that the assembly may, and not must, accord.  My question is how many people are a minority?  The bylaws in this matter are silent on how many people are needed for a minority report.  They do say this however:

Quote

During odd-numbered years, these Bylaws may be amended by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of the Delegates to the Convention, provided the amendment is included in the annual report or a minority report of the Bylaws Committee, or written notice including the formal language of the amendment and signed by two (2) Members is provided to the Board at least thirty (30) days prior to the Convention.

So it seems certain that for an amendment a minority report is not more than two, since those two committee members could just go outside the committee and submit their findings... but can a minority report be signed by just one person?  And does it make a difference if the minority report is not an amendment but a recommendation of rejection of the committee's recommendation?

For reference, the committee comprises 10 people.  My initial instinct was that it required two people - but it doesn't really say that.  

[puzzling]

On 1/12/2023 at 6:11 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

I understand that hearing a minority report is a privilege that the assembly may, and not must, accord.  My question is how many people are a minority?  The bylaws in this matter are silent on how many people are needed for a minority report.  They do say this however:

So it seems certain that for an amendment a minority report is not more than two, since those two committee members could just go outside the committee and submit their findings... but can a minority report be signed by just one person?  And does it make a difference if the minority report is not an amendment but a recommendation of rejection of the committee's recommendation?

For reference, the committee comprises 10 people.  My initial instinct was that it required two people - but it doesn't really say that.  

I am a bit puzzling about the whole  bylaws amendment process, is the committee obliged to mention all received suggestions and give their majority opinion on it?

If it is not then I think a minority report (there can be many of them I think) will just bring a motion to amend the bylaws to the meeting (and as mentioned needs the signature of two committee members) 

if a suggestion is only carried by one committee member it dies and is not brought before the delegates.

if a committee member is against an carried suggestion then if he is a delegate can just say so in the debate about the suggestion, no need for a formal minority report in this case (although a report might help)

(so in short 2 or more comitee members can bring a bylaw amendment to the delegates, but every delegate,  member of yhe committee or not may argue against it, one committee member can not bring a bylaw amendment to the delegates)

but this all a bit depends on what exactly are the tasks, duties and responsibilities of the committee are.

[Rob Elsman]

My understanding is that "minority" in RONR (12th) has its ordinary, dictionary meaning. It is less than a majority.

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

On 1/12/2023 at 3:18 AM, puzzling said:

one committee member can not bring a bylaw amendment to the delegates

None of it depends on the duty of the committee as that is not the context of this question at all.  

 

Your quote above is just an assertion, you didn't say why.  If a minority can be one, then a single committee member might be able to have their minority report heard as a privilege of the assembly - not guaranteed.  That is my question.  How many people does it take to write a minority report when the bylaws do not say?

 

The bylaw above is simply about what MAY be heard not what must be.  The assembly decides if anything other than the committee report is heard.  The Bylaws above is just about sufficient notice as the assembly has very strict notice requirements.  It says nothing about whether it will be heard or not.

[Rob Elsman]

My understanding is that the receiving body is free to extend or withhold a privilege as it sees fit.

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

That's not my question however, my question is how many is a minority before they can even ask an assembly for the privilege.  I understand that a privilege is discretionary.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 1/12/2023 at 1:11 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

I understand that hearing a minority report is a privilege that the assembly may, and not must, accord.  My question is how many people are a minority?  The bylaws in this matter are silent on how many people are needed for a minority report.  They do say this however:

So it seems certain that for an amendment a minority report is not more than two, since those two committee members could just go outside the committee and submit their findings... but can a minority report be signed by just one person?  And does it make a difference if the minority report is not an amendment but a recommendation of rejection of the committee's recommendation?

For reference, the committee comprises 10 people.  My initial instinct was that it required two people - but it doesn't really say that.  

A minority of one is still a minority, although having two people sign the recommendation should eliminate the need for a second.  I think a recommendation to reject the committee's report would also be in order.

But the way I read that language, there are three ways to introduce an amendment:

• The report of the bylaws committee,
• A minority report of the committee,
• A formal notice signed by any two members (not necessarily members of the committee)

[Rob Elsman]

Again, it is up to the receiving body to determine whether it does or does not wish to grant the privilege. If the assembly judges that the minority is too small to warrant granting the privilege, then it can withhold granting it.

[puzzling]

I am a bit puzzling with the idea that it is a privilege to have a report heard, I think the question is more do we debate the amendment now or will we do it later, not will we debate this amendment or not.

(that is why the motion to receive the report is not debatable) 

[Josh Martin]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:11 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

My question is how many people are a minority?

So it seems certain that for an amendment a minority report is not more than two, since those two committee members could just go outside the committee and submit their findings... but can a minority report be signed by just one person?

So far as RONR is concerned, there is no minimum number of persons required to request the privilege of submitting a minority report. A single member of the committee may request this. The assembly certainly may take the number of persons requesting to submit the report into account when determining whether to grant the request.

I am also not certain the rule in question necessarily prohibits a group of two or more members from requesting to submit a minority report. As you say, however, the fact that the committee members could simply choose to submit their amendments as two members of the society may mean that they will choose not to submit a minority report.

On 1/12/2023 at 12:11 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

And does it make a difference if the minority report is not an amendment but a recommendation of rejection of the committee's recommendation?

No, I don't think so.

On 1/13/2023 at 7:12 AM, puzzling said:

I am a bit puzzling with the idea that it is a privilege to have a report heard, I think the question is more do we debate the amendment now or will we do it later, not will we debate this amendment or not.

(that is why the motion to receive the report is not debatable) 

What is meant here by a "privilege" is that it is at the discretion's assembly whether or not the report shall be heard. That is, a minority report cannot be submitted as a matter of right. It is a privilege which may be granted (or not) by the assembly.

"When the minority of a committee wishes to make a formal presentation of its views, it is customary, unless the assembly refuses permission, to receive its report immediately after the report of the committee. In such a case, the member presenting the committee report can properly notify the assembly that the minority wishes to submit its views in a separate report. As soon as the chair has stated the appropriate question on the committee report, he calls for the minority presentation unless someone objects, in which case he puts the question on the report's being received. A majority vote is required to receive a minority report; the question is undebatable." RONR (12th ed.) 51:69

Whether granting such a request will also have the effect of deciding the question of "do we debate the amendment now or will we do it later, not will we debate this amendment or not" will depend upon various specifics, such as how many persons have submitted the minority report in question and what are the contents of the minority report.

Edited January 13, 2023 at 06:10 PM by Josh Martin

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

On 1/12/2023 at 3:31 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

A minority of one is still a minority, although having two people sign the recommendation should eliminate the need for a second.  I think a recommendation to reject the committee's report would also be in order.

But the way I read that language, there are three ways to introduce an amendment:

• The report of the bylaws committee,
• A minority report of the committee,
• A formal notice signed by any two members (not necessarily members of the committee)

You are correct, there are three ways.  This is all about scope of notice and not whether any of them will actually BE. heard but whether they even CAN be heard.

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

On 1/13/2023 at 11:09 AM, Josh Martin said:

I am also not certain the rule in question necessarily prohibits a group of two or more members from requesting to submit a minority report. As you say, however, the fact that the committee members could simply choose to submit their amendments as two members of the society may mean that they will choose not to submit a minority report.

Oh I am not claiming that at all.  I am just curious if the fact that two people are required if submitted out of the committee structure implies that two of the committee members would need to sign a minority report inside of the committee structure.  It seems clear that if at least two sign, there is no issue.  This is only an issue in the case of a minority of one.

[Josh Martin]

On 1/13/2023 at 12:16 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

Oh I am not claiming that at all.  I am just curious if the fact that two people are required if submitted out of the committee structure implies that two of the committee members would need to sign a minority report inside of the committee structure.  It seems clear that if at least two sign, there is no issue.  This is only an issue in the case of a minority of one.

I don't think so. The rule states "provided the amendment is included in the annual report or a minority report of the Bylaws Committee, or written notice including the formal language of the amendment and signed by two (2) Members is provided to the Board".

The "signed by two (2) Members" is included in a separate clause, and therefore does not seem applicable to the clause referring to a minority report of the Bylaws Committee. As a result, it seems to me the rules in the parliamentary authority are controlling on this matter.

Certainly, however, it will ultimately be up to the organization to interpret its own rules.

Edited January 13, 2023 at 06:36 PM by Josh Martin

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Thank you, that is the conclusion I am coming to.  This may turn out to be a nothingburger, but I wanted to get my head around it.  Usually there is at least two people who want to do a minority report. 

[Richard Brown]

On 1/13/2023 at 12:36 PM, Josh Martin said:

The "signed by two (2) Members" is included in a separate clause, and therefore does not seem applicable to the clause referring to a minority report of the Bylaws Committee.

I agree.  Two members are not required for a committee's minority report.  Only one member in the minority is sufficient for a minority report.  

[Atul Kapur]

There's been a lot of discussion about a minority report not being a right. However, I read the bylaws excerpt as giving the minority on the bylaws committee the right to submit a report, because it is necessary for them to do so in order to exercise their rights to submit an amendment.

In a committee of 10 people, there could be up to four minority reports, one each from  individual in the minority.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 1/14/2023 at 4:21 AM, Atul Kapur said:

There's been a lot of discussion about a minority report not being a right. However, I read the bylaws excerpt as giving the minority on the bylaws committee the right to submit a report, because it is necessary for them to do so in order to exercise their rights to submit an amendment.

In a committee of 10 people, there could be up to four minority reports, one each from  individual in the minority.

They could submit the amendment as simply from two or more members, without needing any minority report.  So I don't see that as abridging their rights.

[Josh Martin]

On 1/14/2023 at 3:21 AM, Atul Kapur said:

There's been a lot of discussion about a minority report not being a right. However, I read the bylaws excerpt as giving the minority on the bylaws committee the right to submit a report, because it is necessary for them to do so in order to exercise their rights to submit an amendment.

That is one interpretation, but I'm not sure I agree with this view. It seems to me the rule in question provides that a bylaw amendment may be submitted by one of the following methods:

• The report of the bylaws committee
• A minority report of the bylaws committee
• Any two members of the society, "provided to the Board at least thirty (30) days prior to the Convention"

I do not think this rule grants committee members a "right" to submit a minority report. It would seem to me the ordinary rules pertaining to minority reports are applicable.

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

On 1/14/2023 at 11:56 AM, Josh Martin said:

That is one interpretation, but I'm not sure I agree with this view. It seems to me the rule in question provides that a bylaw amendment may be submitted by one of the following methods:

• The report of the bylaws committee
• A minority report of the bylaws committee
• Any two members of the society, "provided to the Board at least thirty (30) days prior to the Convention"

I do not think this rule grants committee members a "right" to submit a minority report. It would seem to me the ordinary rules pertaining to minority reports are applicable.

The way that the society has interpreted its bylaws and its intent is the way Mr. Kapur stated, in fact pretty exactly.  It is to allow that amendment to be potentially heard under scope of notice.  That amendment as long as submitted can even be made by a member in the floor as long as it was noticed in a minority report.

Edited January 15, 2023 at 01:52 AM by Caryn Ann Harlos