Ending a Meeting

[Guest Corson]

We recently had a meeting where our chair abruptly adjourned our meeting w/o seeking a vote.  Is that meeting "still in session?"

How do we conclude such a meeting?   

[Phil D]

Was a point of order timely raised? If not, then the improper adjournment stands. 

[Guest Corson]

No, our chair didn't like what was being said, it put them into a corner and didn't really know how to respond.  So, they just said, "Meeting Adjourned"

There was a lot of loud comments made saying, "you can't do that" etc.  My question really is, how do we resolve the meeting properly?  Our articles state we are to follow Robert's Rules and I can't seem to find the answer.  

[Dan Honemann]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:12 AM, Guest Corson said:

No, our chair didn't like what was being said, it put them into a corner and didn't really know how to respond.  So, they just said, "Meeting Adjourned"

There was a lot of loud comments made saying, "you can't do that" etc.  My question really is, how do we resolve the meeting properly?  Our articles state we are to follow Robert's Rules and I can't seem to find the answer.  

Well, it seems obvious that your meeting has ended.

[Phil D]

Yes as a practical matter the meeting is over once folks have packed up, gone home, and start posting parliamentary questions to online fora, regardless of whether the magic words “meeting adjourned” were spoken or arrived at through the correct procedure. 

The chair effectively “gaveled through” a motion to adjourn. It’s a bit beyond the scope of RONR to tell you what to do in an acute situation like that where the rules are being blatantly disregarded as described, they generally presume the chair and the overwhelming majority of the assembly will respect the rules and the will of the assembly.  You and other members may wish to figure out how to replace the chair with one who will follow the rules.

[Richard Brown]

What happened Does not appear to be proper based on what you told us. However, what’s done is done. The chair declared the meeting adjourned and apparently no one raised a Point of Order and went home. So, the meeting is definitely adjourned.

If members are displeased with the President, they might consider trying to remove him from office.  For starters, you might look at frequently asked question number 20 on the main website. Scroll down to FAQ # 20. It’s the last question and answer. https://robertsrules.com/frequently-asked-questions/

[Gary Novosielski]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:12 AM, Guest Corson said:

No, our chair didn't like what was being said, it put them into a corner and didn't really know how to respond.  So, they just said, "Meeting Adjourned"

There was a lot of loud comments made saying, "you can't do that" etc.  My question really is, how do we resolve the meeting properly?  Our articles state we are to follow Robert's Rules and I can't seem to find the answer.  

The proper pronunciation of "You can't do that" is "Point of Order!"

A meeting that was improperly adjourned is not adjourned provided someone raises a point of order at once.  Then,

• If the chair simply leaves, calmly get a new presiding officer and carry on.  That would be the vice-chair if you have one, or elect a chair pro-tem to complete the meeting. 
• If the chair rules the point of order not well taken, Appeal that ruling and proceed as above.
• If the chair comes climbs down off the hissy fit and continues to preside, continue.

But in any case, if the chair habitually demonstrates unfitness for the office, get a new chair.  

As far as that past meeting is concerned, yes, it is adjourned.  As my father used to say, 'There is a lot of truth in what actually happens." 

See RONR (12th ed.) §23 Point of Order; §24 Appeal

[puzzling]

<deleted>

Edited January 16, 2023 at 06:01 PM by puzzling
Mr Novisielski's post covers the same grounds better

[Richard Brown]

 

On 1/16/2023 at 10:49 AM, puzzling said:

could not somebody  else (the vice president, secretary or other member) take the chair, rule on the point of order.  (after checking that there is a quorum)

the meeting can then elect an chair pro tem (if the vice president did not take the chair) and continue the meeting.

but for the past meeting it is now to late.

(but it might an idea for next time)

I believe that is what Mr. Novosielski said in his post immediately above yours, but I see the two of you posted at the same time.  All of this also assumes that the chair immediately leaves the meeting after declaring it adjourned, unless he has been removed from presiding pursuant to the provisions in RONR. 

[Richard Brown]

On 1/16/2023 at 10:49 AM, puzzling said:

could not somebody  else (the vice president, secretary or other member) take the chair, rule on the point of order.  (after checking that there is a quorum)

In certain circumstances, yes, but not exactly in the manner you stated. Using the provisions of 62:8 and 62:9, if the chair refuses to acknowledge or rule on a point of order or ignores an appeal appropriately made and seconded, a member is permitted to put the ignored motion or Point of Order or appeal directly to a vote of the assembly. See sections 62:8 and 62:9 for the details of those procedures.

To  remove the chair from presiding requires following the procedures in 62:10–14.

Edited January 16, 2023 at 05:43 PM by Richard Brown
Typographical correction

[puzzling]

On 1/16/2023 at 5:41 PM, Richard Brown said:

In certain circumstances, yes, but not exactly in the manner you stated. Using the provisions of 62:8 and 62:9, if the chair refuses to acknowledge or rule on a point of order or ignores an appeal appropriately made and seconded, a member is permitted to put the ignored motion or Point of Order or appeal directly to a vote of the assembly. See sections 62:8 and 62:9 for the details of those procedures.

To  remove the chair from presiding requires following the procedures in 62:10–14.

I guess this procedure can also be used if the chair just leaves the meeting (room)

[Josh Martin]

On 1/16/2023 at 6:00 AM, Guest Corson said:

We recently had a meeting where our chair abruptly adjourned our meeting w/o seeking a vote.  Is that meeting "still in session?"

No.

On 1/16/2023 at 6:00 AM, Guest Corson said:

How do we conclude such a meeting?   

The meeting already concluded when you all went home (if not earlier).

To be clear, the chair's action was quite likely improper. Notwithstanding this, the meeting does not remain open indefinitely as a result of this error. A member should have raised a Point of Order at the time, followed by an Appeal if necessary.

"The general rule is that if a question of order is to be raised, it must be raised promptly at the time the breach occurs." RONR (12th ed.) 23:5

There are some exceptions to this rule, which are discussed in RONR (12th ed.) 23:6, but none of those exceptions are applicable here.

On 1/16/2023 at 7:12 AM, Guest Corson said:

There was a lot of loud comments made saying, "you can't do that" etc.  My question really is, how do we resolve the meeting properly?  Our articles state we are to follow Robert's Rules and I can't seem to find the answer.  

At this point, there is nothing to resolve (at least in regard to the meeting). The meeting is adjourned.

Members may wish to study RONR (12th ed.) Sections 23-24 concerning Point of Order and Appeal, so that if this situation arises again, they can respond in the proper manner. If it is desired to get a new chairman, see RONR (12th ed.) Section 62.