Is this a paradoxical situtation with certified delegates?

[Clyde Waggoner]

At the beginning of the House of Delegates (HOD), the credentials report is read and then adopted as the official roll of the HOD. At this point, just prior to the adoption of the report, no one is certified as a delegate, not even the members of the Committee on Credentials, Rules and Order.  How can a vote occur if no member is a certified delegate?  The Bylaws state only registered and certified are eligible to vote in the HOD.  

Essentially, non-certified members of the organization, because they are not yet members of the HOD, are adopting a report to create the body of membership for the HOD. How do you think this issue should be addressed, if at all?    

I researched this topic but have yet to find an answer to my question. I apologize if this has been previously addressed, but I failed to find any references to the topic.   

Thank you!

Clyde Waggoner

[George Mervosh]

 

On 1/18/2023 at 2:15 PM, Clyde Waggoner said:

At the beginning of the House of Delegates (HOD), the credentials report is read and then adopted as the official roll of the HOD. At this point, just prior to the adoption of the report, no one is certified as a delegate, not even the members of the Committee on Credentials, Rules and Order.  How can a vote occur if no member is a certified delegate?  The Bylaws state only registered and certified are eligible to vote in the HOD.  

Essentially, non-certified members of the organization, because they are not yet members of the HOD, are adopting a report to create the body of membership for the HOD. How do you think this issue should be addressed, if at all?    

I researched this topic but have yet to find an answer to my question. I apologize if this has been previously addressed, but I failed to find any references to the topic.   

Thank you!

Clyde Waggoner

This is always the case in a convention of delegates.  See RONR (12th ed.), 59:22-24 for full details.

This is from the first sentence in 59:22 - " Before the Credentials Committee report is adopted, since the membership has not been established, the only motions that are in order are those related to its consideration or to the conduct of the meeting before its adoption, as well as those that are in order in the absence of a quorum (40:6–8)."

[Richard Brown]

On 1/18/2023 at 1:15 PM, Clyde Waggoner said:

At the beginning of the House of Delegates (HOD), the credentials report is read and then adopted as the official roll of the HOD. At this point, just prior to the adoption of the report, no one is certified as a delegate, not even the members of the Committee on Credentials, Rules and Order.  How can a vote occur if no member is a certified delegate?  The Bylaws state only registered and certified are eligible to vote in the HOD.  

Essentially, non-certified members of the organization, because they are not yet members of the HOD, are adopting a report to create the body of membership for the HOD. How do you think this issue should be addressed, if at all?    

I researched this topic but have yet to find an answer to my question. I apologize if this has been previously addressed, but I failed to find any references to the topic.   

Thank you!

Clyde Waggoner

This is covered in sections 59:22-25 in RONR (12th ed.), especially 59:22 which reads as follows:

Adoption of Report. Before the Credentials Committee report is adopted, since the membership has not been established, the only motions that are in order are those related to its consideration or to the conduct of the meeting before its adoption, as well as those that are in order in the absence of a quorum (40: 6– 8). 2 Even, for example, a motion relating to the validity of the holding of the convention is not in order at such a time. It is, therefore, essential that the committee establish and hold itself to a deadline for registrations to be included in its first report, which will leave it time to prepare that report. The opening ceremonies will afford some opportunity for this work, and, while it is in process, delegates can continue to register— but not to be included in the committee’s initial report. If the report is not ready in time, the convention may continue with other nonbusiness matters, such as speakers, or may stand at ease or take a recess.

 

[Josh Martin]

On 1/18/2023 at 11:15 AM, Clyde Waggoner said:

At the beginning of the House of Delegates (HOD), the credentials report is read and then adopted as the official roll of the HOD. At this point, just prior to the adoption of the report, no one is certified as a delegate, not even the members of the Committee on Credentials, Rules and Order.  How can a vote occur if no member is a certified delegate?  The Bylaws state only registered and certified are eligible to vote in the HOD.  

Essentially, non-certified members of the organization, because they are not yet members of the HOD, are adopting a report to create the body of membership for the HOD. How do you think this issue should be addressed, if at all?    

I understand why this might be viewed as odd, but this is nonetheless exactly how this procedure is supposed to work and is consistent with the procedures in RONR. I do not think there is any issue to resolve.

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

I always thought this odd too, but they are presumptive delegates until the report is adopted.  Shroedinger's delegates if you would.

[Guest Clyde Waggoner]

Thank you all for the excellent responses. I missed the reference in RONR (12th ed).  Now I understand the process and see that this is how it is suppose to work. Agree that there is no issue at this point.