Non-Secret Ballot

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

I understand that per the RONR definition, a ballot is secret.  Can a society's bylaws provide that voting be done be written ballot, but they are not secret (i.e. they require the name and signature to be placed on them).  Does this simply supercede RONR as bylaws can do?

[Richard Brown]

On 1/23/2023 at 10:33 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

I understand that per the RONR definition, a ballot is secret.  Can a society's bylaws provide that voting be done be written ballot, but they are not secret (i.e. they require the name and signature to be placed on them).  Does this simply supercede RONR as bylaws can do?

Yes.  The bylaws can provide for just about anything, including even an outright prohibition of secret ballots.  FWIW, I have seen this done.

[Atul Kapur]

It doesn't, strictly speaking, conflict with RONR which speaks of a signed ballot (which is effectively a version of a roll-call vote) at 45:46.

Edited January 23, 2023 at 06:00 PM by Atul Kapur

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

On 1/23/2023 at 11:00 AM, Atul Kapur said:

It doesn't, strictly speaking, conflict with RONR which speaks of a signed ballot (which is effectively a version of a roll-call vote) at 45:46.

Thank you I never noticed that before.

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

On 1/23/2023 at 10:01 AM, Richard Brown said:

Yes.  The bylaws can provide for just about anything, including even an outright prohibition of secret ballots.  FWIW, I have seen this done.

That is how it is in Colorado, which was the occasion for my question.  We don't have secret anything here.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 1/23/2023 at 11:33 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

I understand that per the RONR definition, a ballot is secret.  Can a society's bylaws provide that voting be done be written ballot, but they are not secret (i.e. they require the name and signature to be placed on them).  Does this simply supercede RONR as bylaws can do?

Yes, I've seen this requirement, referred to as a "signed ballot". 

[laser158689]

Is any method where the vote of every individual member is documented considered a roll call vote?

[Rob Elsman]

No.

[Josh Martin]

On 1/25/2023 at 2:47 PM, laser158689 said:

Is any method where the vote of every individual member is documented considered a roll call vote?

Other than a traditional roll call vote and a signed ballot, what other method did you have in mind in which "the vote of every individual member is documented"?

Edited January 25, 2023 at 09:21 PM by Josh Martin

[Atul Kapur]

If the way that every member voted is recorded in the records, it has the same effect as a roll-call vote.

45:45 "Taking a vote by roll call (or by yeas and nays, as it is also called) has the effect of placing on the record how each member, or sometimes each delegation, votes"

45:52 "In roll-call voting, a record of how each member voted, as well as the result of the vote, is entered in full in the journal or minutes."

Regarding alternatives that are equivalent to roll-call votes:

45:55 "Various forms of electronic devices have become available to take the place of a roll-call vote."

45:46 also refers to a signed ballot as an alternative to a roll call, with the same effect.

Edited January 25, 2023 at 09:25 PM by Atul Kapur

[laser158689]

My town legislative body had a voting method where each member in a district marking their vote on a common card (230 members, 12 districts, 12 cards).

This card was often thought of as a "ballot" by the members.

As an aside, in district/committee, where actual ballots are used, guidance has been that they need to be signed, but individual member votes where note recorded, only the tally.

Edited January 26, 2023 at 03:23 PM by laser158689
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