Disciplinary Suspension Penalty

[J. J.]

Section 61:2 notes that suspension from membership can be a penalty in a disciplinary action.  This is repeated in 61:15 and 63:33 (e), in the final paragraph.

Two questions:

1.  Is there any limit to the length of time of the suspension?

2.  Is there a point when the suspension will require a 2/3 vote in order to be imposed? 

Edited April 5, 2023 at 11:27 AM by J. J.
Fixed citation

[Gary Novosielski]

On 4/4/2023 at 10:44 PM, J. J. said:

Section [61]:2 notes that suspension from membership can be a penalty in a disciplinary action.  This is repeated in 61:15 and 63:33 (e), in the final paragraph.

Two questions:

1.  Is there any limit to the length of time of the suspension?

2.  Is there a point when the suspension will require a 2/3 vote in order to be imposed? 

1. I don't see any limits.  Apparently it is assumed that ridiculously long or short intervals would not achieve a majority vote.

2. When the suspension is permanent, i.e., expulsion.

Edited April 5, 2023 at 06:15 AM by Gary Novosielski

[J. J.]

On 4/5/2023 at 2:14 AM, Gary Novosielski said:

1. I don't see any limits.  Apparently it is assumed that ridiculously long or short intervals would not achieve a majority vote.

2. When the suspension is permanent, i.e., expulsion.

First, thank you.  I fixed the citation.

Second, I would not agree that there could be too short a suspension.  Even a brief suspension is technically a stronger punishment than disciplinary censure; the member would have that on his record.  There would also be the possibility that the member suspended could not vote on key issues, important to him, that would come up just as the suspension took affect. 

Third, yes there are differences between suspension and expulsion.   First is that a suspension could be rescinded while an expulsion could not.  Second is that, in many organizations, an expelled member could easily rejoin, while a suspended member could not. 

[Josh Martin]

On 4/4/2023 at 9:44 PM, J. J. said:

1.  Is there any limit to the length of time of the suspension?

2.  Is there a point when the suspension will require a 2/3 vote in order to be imposed? 

There is no strict time limit, but I believe that at a certain point, a suspension would be functionally equivalent to an expulsion. (And in some ways, potentially worse than an expulsion, depending on the organization's rules for readmitting members.) I don't think this means that such a suspension is prohibited, but I am inclined to think that a 2/3 vote would be required, comparable to an expulsion. As a particularly extreme example, I don't think an assembly could, for instance, suspend a member for one hundred years as a way of getting around the 2/3 vote requirement for expulsion.

There does not appear to be any "bright line" rule as to when a suspension becomes functionally equivalent to an expulsion. This will require some common sense and judgment on the part of the organization and may vary depending on the type of organization. For instance, a suspension of a few years might well be reasonable in many organizations, but may be functionally equivalent to an expulsion in a student organization (since the members will graduate and no longer be members in a few years).

Edited April 5, 2023 at 04:41 PM by Josh Martin

[J. J.]

On 4/5/2023 at 12:41 PM, Josh Martin said:

There is no strict time limit, but I believe that at a certain point, a suspension would be functionally equivalent to an expulsion. (And in some ways, potentially worse than an expulsion, depending on the organization's rules for readmitting members.) I don't think this means that such a suspension is prohibited, but I am inclined to think that a 2/3 vote would be required, comparable to an expulsion. As a particularly extreme example, I don't think an assembly could, for instance, suspend a member for one hundred years as a way of getting around the 2/3 vote requirement for expulsion.

There does not appear to be any "bright line" rule as to when a suspension becomes functionally equivalent to an expulsion. This will require some common sense and judgment on the part of the organization and may vary depending on the type of organization. For instance, a suspension of a few years might well be reasonable in many organizations, but may be functionally equivalent to an expulsion in a student organization (since the members will graduate and no longer be members in a few years).

I have seen an organization, on line, suspend a member for 100 years, expel other members, suspend them for shorter definite period of time, and suspended them for an indefinite period of time.

If chairing, I think that at some point, before 100 years or an indefinite period of time, I would rule that such a motion is tantamount to an expulsion and would require a 2/3 vote, subject to appeal, whatever my ruling would be.  I would note that the appeal would require a majority vote to change that decision.  I am not thrilled with the answer, but I think it is correct.

While it is easier, in some cases, to admit someone that was expelled as a new member, a suspension, even for 100 years, would be subject to Rescind/Amend Something Previously Adopted almost immediately. 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 4/5/2023 at 7:47 AM, J. J. said:

Second, I would not agree that there could be too short a suspension. 

I didn't say that was my opinion.  I said that if a majority thought a given suspension was too short, it would not be adopted, regardless of whether you or I agreed with them.