hand polls under "Good of the Order"

[Guest Crayons Guest]

This started a few years ago and was initially not allowed under previous chairmen. We have a couple of folks who like to get up and ask a question then ask for a hand poll on the subject. the individuals asking for said poll say they are just taking the temperature of the people in attendance.

Is such a thing allowed?

I personally do not like it, as I and others feel it creates a type of Subterfuge within the body.

Thanks in Advance

John

[Joshua Katz]

On 5/7/2023 at 2:50 PM, Guest Crayons Guest said:

Is such a thing allowed?

 

Under the rules in RONR, it would be, I think, considered a prohibited straw poll. It is a vote with no impact, which RONR does not permit. But stay tuned for other answers.

[Gary Novosielski]

I agree with @Joshua Katz.

45:72
Straw Polls Not in Order. A motion to take an informal straw poll to “test the water” is not in order because it neither adopts nor rejects a measure and hence is meaningless and dilatory. If the assembly wishes to discuss and take a vote on a matter without the vote constituting final action by the assembly, it may instead vote to go into a committee of the whole or a quasi committee of the whole ([§]52). Under these procedures, the assembly considers the matter as would a committee, and its vote while in committee of the whole (or quasi committee of the whole) serves only as a recommendation to the assembly, which the assembly is free to reject just as would be the case with regard to the report of any ordinary committee.

Edited May 7, 2023 at 11:40 PM by Gary Novosielski

[Guest Crayons Guest]

Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for your input. I will be sure to implement this at our next meeting.

May I continue this thread with another question?

 

[Joshua Katz]

It would be better, if it's on a new topic, to start a new thread. It makes it easier for future visitors to find what they are looking for.

[Richard Brown]

Guest Crayons, my take on this is slightly different from that of my colleagues.  You said (in the title of your post, not in the text) that these "straw polls" take place during The "Good of the Order" portion of your meetings.  Although it is true that RONR says that straw polls are not in order, I believe that a certain amount of relaxation of the rules is permissible when in "The Good of The Order".  RONR (12th ed.) 41:34  Among other things, when in "Good of The Order",  RONR specifically permits informal observations regarding the work of the organization without a pending motion, etc. 

Regarding straw polls specifically, RONR says in 45:72 that in lieu of a straw poll, an assembly might go into the committee of the whole or quasi-committee of the whole so as to be able to discuss the matter with the informality that would be permitted in a committee and to take a vote that is not binding.

Finally, the rules can certainly be suspended so as to permit the taking of a straw poll.  It seems this would be especially useful when in "The Good of The Order".

If I were presiding during The Good of The Order and something like the possibility of having a picnic was being discussed (with no motion pending) and a member wanted to take a straw poll to get the sense of the membership on having such an activity, I would be inclined to permit the taking of the straw poll unless an objection was raised.   At a minimum, even if there is an objection, the poll can be permitted by suspending the rules.

[Crayons Guest]

Thank you all for your input.