Chair has asked whether there are changes to agenda; may I make a motion to fix the time at which to adjourn?

[Guest Carole]

I am a member of a standing Committee that meets monthly (per our Bylaws). In the case of this Committee, we meet the first Thursday of every month at 6:30 pm. The Chair sends out a proposed agenda several days prior to each meeting. Adjournment is on the agenda, but no time is set. At the April meeting, when the Chair asked for any changes to the agenda, one of the members made a motion to amend the agenda to provide that the meeting would adjourn at 7:30 pm (that same evening). Her motion was seconded. The Chair called the motion out of order and said that such a motion must be brought as New Business, at the point under the Agenda when we are discussing new business. There was some back and forth (Point of Order called), but the Chair overruled the Point of Order, ignored the motion and moved on. At this month's meeting, after the meeting started, when the Chair asked for any changes to the agenda, I made a motion to amend the agenda to provide that tonight's meeting would adjourn at 7:30 pm, and my motion was seconded. This time the Chair said that he had researched this topic after the last meeting, and my motion was incorrect, because a motion to set a time to adjourn must also include the time and date of the next meeting. I told him that I thought this was incorrect, and there was a lot of debate in the meeting, but ultimately the Chair and I agreed to discuss this offline. So I am researching this topic in advance of our discussion. It seems to me that the Chair is confusing a privileged motion to Fix the Time to Which to Adjourn (Sec 22) with a Motion to Fix the Time At Which to Adjourn, which is a main motion. And that it is appropriate to bring a motion to Fix the Time At Which to Adjourn at the time when the Committee is considering changes to the agenda, since this motion would amend the agenda to provide for a set time to adjourn.  Thank you for your input.

[Rob Elsman]

The chair is clearly incorrect.

[Gary Novosielski]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The chair is confusing the motion to Fix the Time to Which to Adjourn and a motion to fix the time at which to adjourn, neither of which is what's happening in the situation you describe, anyway.

The chair has asked for changes (amendments) to the agenda/program.  A motion to amend the item on the agenda labeled Adjourn by fixing a time for it is therefore perfectly germane, timely, and in order. 

Adjourning a meeting may or may not fix a time for an "adjournment of" the present meeting, which ends the current meeting but establishes a future meeting that is part of the same session.  If no such time is set, it merely ends the current meeting. There's nothing wrong with that.

But you are not moving to adjourn.  You are moving to amend the program/agenda.  And that's exactly what the chair asked for.  Be prepared to Appeal next time he makes such a nonsensical ruling.

[Rob Elsman]

While the committee is at it, drop the use of an agenda entirely. As is so common, you all are getting needlessly tripped up with it.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 5/14/2023 at 8:55 PM, Rob Elsman said:

While the committee is at it, drop the use of an agenda entirely. As is so common, you all are getting needlessly tripped up with it.

That's a point worth considering.

And if Guest Carole's group does opt for that, then a motion to fix the time at which to adjourn becomes an incidental main motion to Adjourn, with qualifications.  As such it is in order whenever no question is pending, and need not wait for any specific category in the order of business.

[Josh Martin]

On 5/14/2023 at 5:12 PM, Guest Carole said:

I am a member of a standing Committee that meets monthly (per our Bylaws). In the case of this Committee, we meet the first Thursday of every month at 6:30 pm. The Chair sends out a proposed agenda several days prior to each meeting. Adjournment is on the agenda, but no time is set. At the April meeting, when the Chair asked for any changes to the agenda, one of the members made a motion to amend the agenda to provide that the meeting would adjourn at 7:30 pm (that same evening). Her motion was seconded. The Chair called the motion out of order and said that such a motion must be brought as New Business, at the point under the Agenda when we are discussing new business. There was some back and forth (Point of Order called), but the Chair overruled the Point of Order, ignored the motion and moved on. At this month's meeting, after the meeting started, when the Chair asked for any changes to the agenda, I made a motion to amend the agenda to provide that tonight's meeting would adjourn at 7:30 pm, and my motion was seconded. This time the Chair said that he had researched this topic after the last meeting, and my motion was incorrect, because a motion to set a time to adjourn must also include the time and date of the next meeting. I told him that I thought this was incorrect, and there was a lot of debate in the meeting, but ultimately the Chair and I agreed to discuss this offline. So I am researching this topic in advance of our discussion. It seems to me that the Chair is confusing a privileged motion to Fix the Time to Which to Adjourn (Sec 22) with a Motion to Fix the Time At Which to Adjourn, which is a main motion. And that it is appropriate to bring a motion to Fix the Time At Which to Adjourn at the time when the Committee is considering changes to the agenda, since this motion would amend the agenda to provide for a set time to adjourn.  Thank you for your input.

The chair is incorrect on multiple counts.

• A motion to set a time for adjournment is absolutely appropriate as a motion to Amend the agenda.
• The motion on this matter does not need to set a time and date for the next meeting. As you suggest, the chair appears to be confused and is thinking of a different motion.

[Guest Guest Carole]

Thank you Gentlemen, this is very helpful and exactly what I was seeking for my offline discussion with the Chair. Hopefully this will foreclose a repeat of what happened at the last two meetings. 

Carole