debbokay Posted June 22, 2023 at 02:33 AM Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 at 02:33 AM Background... NFP Housing Coop In past years the secretary would take the minutes and sign them when approved. In the last couple of years, although we have a secretary, they do none of the duties of a secretary, nor is anyone willing to step in and perform the duties. The President chairs the meetings and takes the minutes. The question is, when signing the minutes we would normally have the President sign and the recording secretary, since the President is doing both jobs is it proper for the President to sign in both places? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted June 22, 2023 at 02:54 AM Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 at 02:54 AM The person who drafted the minutes should sign them. The president may also sign. I don't see any sense in having the "secretary"sign something they had more part in creating, just because of their title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted June 22, 2023 at 04:31 AM Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 at 04:31 AM 47:34 In the absence of the secretary, a secretary pro tem must be elected; the corresponding, financial, or executive secretary in organizations having such officers is not an automatic replacement. … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted June 22, 2023 at 03:31 PM Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 at 03:31 PM (edited) On 6/21/2023 at 9:33 PM, debbokay said: In past years the secretary would take the minutes and sign them when approved. In the last couple of years, although we have a secretary, they do none of the duties of a secretary, nor is anyone willing to step in and perform the duties. The President chairs the meetings and takes the minutes. The question is, when signing the minutes we would normally have the President sign and the recording secretary, since the President is doing both jobs is it proper for the President to sign in both places? The President would certainly sign as the recording secretary in these instances. The President, in effect, is serving as the Secretary Pro Tempore for each meeting, and should therefore sign the minutes. When RONR states that the minutes should be signed by the secretary, this refers to the person serving in that capacity for the meeting. To the extent the organization's custom is also to have the President sign the minutes (RONR does not require this), I suppose he would also sign in that capacity. It seems a bit silly to me to have him sign twice, although no rule prevents it. Perhaps he could instead sign once and list his title as "President and Secretary Pro Tempore." "Minutes should be signed by the secretary and can also be signed, if the assembly wishes, by the president. The words Respectfully submitted—although occasionally used—represent an older practice that is not essential in signing the minutes." RONR (12th ed.) 48:7 Further, the organization really needs to find someone willing to perform the duties of Secretary as soon as possible. It really is not ideal to have someone preside and take minutes at the same time. Edited June 22, 2023 at 03:32 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debbokay Posted June 24, 2023 at 11:05 AM Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 at 11:05 AM Thank you Josh, Gary and Atul for your replies. President has been signing both lines, but will now change it to President / Secretary Pro Tempore. Yes, it would be ideal to have a Secretary take, submit and sign Minutes, but that has been a challenge for years. They all want the job title but won't take the Minutes... even looked for outside help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted June 24, 2023 at 05:19 PM Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 at 05:19 PM On 6/24/2023 at 6:05 AM, debbokay said: Thank you Josh, Gary and Atul for your replies. President has been signing both lines, but will now change it to President / Secretary Pro Tempore. Yes, it would be ideal to have a Secretary take, submit and sign Minutes, but that has been a challenge for years. They all want the job title but won't take the Minutes... even looked for outside help. Are you perhaps putting too much information in your minutes, and that's what's keeping people away? It really shouldn't be that onerous a task if the minutes are taken in accordance with RONR, and the minutes are a record of what was done, not what was said. See RONR (12th ed.) 48:1-8 for more information on the contents of the minutes. On the other hand, if your members are just lazy, RONR can't help with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debbokay Posted June 25, 2023 at 11:57 AM Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 at 11:57 AM On 6/24/2023 at 12:19 PM, Josh Martin said: On the other hand, if your members are just lazy, RONR can't help with that. Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted June 25, 2023 at 04:34 PM Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 at 04:34 PM (edited) On 6/25/2023 at 7:57 AM, debbokay said: Bingo! But take @Josh Martin's advice to heart. Make sure you're not trying to include too much in the minutes. There should not be anything regarding who said what, or what both sides of the issue were, or why. Pretty much only what was moved, and whether or not it was adopted. For an example of properly done minutes, see RONR 12th ed. 48:8. Properly handled it's not a real high-sweat job. And a deliberative assembly really should have a minimum of two offers: one to preside, and one to record. Making one person do both is going to compromise one or both roles. Edited June 25, 2023 at 04:37 PM by Gary Novosielski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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