How many motions are too much per agenda item?

[Paul Hunter]

In a meeting, is there a mechanism that limits on how many motions can be made by a single person per agenda item?  I am thinking there has to be otherwise someone can filibuster just about everything anyone is doing or make meetings take hours upon hours with nothing getting accomplished.  And, yes, this is a real world scenario.

[Joshua Katz]

There is no such limit. It seems to me the solution is more artful drafting of the agenda items such that large numbers of motions are not possible.

[Paul Hunter]

I am extremely green and only got my RONR books about a month ago.  How do you artfully draft agenda items such that large numbers of motions are not possible? 

[Joshua Katz]

Suppose you want an agenda item regarding the clubhouse. You could put on the agenda "the clubhouse." Then all sorts of motions will be relevant. Or you can call it "painting the clubhouse" which will greatly reduce the number of relevant motions. An example from your organization might be easier to work with, though.

[Rob Elsman]

At no time is it in order to make motions that are dilatory, and there is no legitimate parliamentary procedure that permits one member to make meetings take hours upon hours with nothing getting accomplished. I suspect the presiding officer is not properly trained, and I also suspect the members in general are not properly trained; otherwise, this kind of member's misuse of his right to make motions would be effectively dealt with in short order.

[Josh Martin]

On 1/12/2024 at 8:00 AM, Paul Hunter said:

In a meeting, is there a mechanism that limits on how many motions can be made by a single person per agenda item?  I am thinking there has to be otherwise someone can filibuster just about everything anyone is doing or make meetings take hours upon hours with nothing getting accomplished.  And, yes, this is a real world scenario.

There's not exactly a hard and fast rule on this, like "five motions." The number of motions which are appropriate will vary depending on the parliamentary situation.

This reference to a "filibuster," however, raises some potential issues. To the extent that members are indeed making motions for the purpose of delaying business, there are tools for the chair to control this:

"A motion is dilatory if it seeks to obstruct or thwart the will of the assembly as clearly indicated by the existing parliamentary situation.

Parliamentary forms are designed to assist in the transaction of business. Even without adopting a rule on the subject, every deliberative assembly has the right to protect itself from the dilatory use of these forms.

Any main or other motion that is frivolous or absurd or that contains no rational proposition is dilatory and cannot be introduced. As further examples, it is dilatory to obstruct business by appealing from a ruling of the chair on a question about which there cannot possibly be two reasonable opinions, by demanding a division (29) on a vote even when there has been a full vote and the result is clear, by moving to lay on the table the matter for which a special meeting has been called, by constantly raising points of order and appealing from the chair's decision on them, or by moving to adjourn again and again when nothing has happened to justify renewal of such a motion. By use of such tactics, a minority of two or three members could bring business to a standstill.

It is the duty of the presiding officer to prevent members from misusing the legitimate forms of motions, or abusing the privilege of renewing certain motions, merely to obstruct business. Whenever the chair becomes convinced that one or more members are repeatedly using parliamentary forms for dilatory purposes, he should either not recognize these members or he should rule that such motions are not in order—but he should never adopt such a course merely to speed up business, and he should never permit his personal feelings to affect his judgment in such cases. If the chair only suspects that a motion is not made in good faith, he should give the maker of the motion the benefit of the doubt. The chair should always be courteous and fair, but at the same time he should be firm in protecting the assembly from imposition." RONR (12th ed.) 39:1-4

The assembly, of course, also has many tools at its disposal to speed along business, if needed, including motions such as Limit Debate and the Previous Question, either of which requires a 2/3 vote for adoption.

On 1/12/2024 at 9:17 AM, Paul Hunter said:

I am extremely green and only got my RONR books about a month ago.  How do you artfully draft agenda items such that large numbers of motions are not possible? 

There is no manner in which to draft an agenda in which "large numbers of motions are not possible."

Conceivably, however, the agenda could be drafted in such a way that large numbers of motions are less likely. I would generally imagine, for instance, that a clear, concise agenda item would be more successful in this regard than a broad, vague topic.

Do you have a more specific example of the agenda items where this issue is arising and the sorts of motions being made?

[Paul Hunter]

Rob Elsman Yes, I am very new to this and most people do not understand the RONR very well.  I am only in this position because no one else would step up.

[Paul Hunter]

Josh Martin not off hand at the moment.  I feel like I should get a certificate or training at this point if I am to continue on with this position

[Rob Elsman]

@Paul Hunter, no, no. There are many, many ordinary people who serve their organizations as presiding officer with distinction without any kind of professional training. The book is very carefully written in such a way that it fulfills a pedagogical function as well as an explicative function. In that sense, it is deliberately not a book of statutes like the code of laws of a government. It may be regrettable that you are where you are because no one else would step up (a career path to the chair that I don't recommend), but not all is lost, by any means. You certainly can gain for yourself the necessary knowledge to be an effective (though inexperienced) presiding officer. Just give the book an honest read.

If you get stuck, we're here. There are many accomplished, professional parliamentarians who regularly contribute to the forum. In addition, several of the authors regularly read the forum and sometimes reply.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 1/12/2024 at 1:17 PM, Paul Hunter said:

Josh Martin not off hand at the moment.  I feel like I should get a certificate or training at this point if I am to continue on with this position

Lay your hands on one or more copies of Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised in Brief ¹ (3rd ed.).  It contains advice valuable to those newly involved with deliberative assemblies, and has citations to the more nuanced rules in Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised ² (12th ed.) where more detailed explanation is required.

____________
¹ Known as RONRIB
² Known as RONR

[Guest Steve]

On 1/12/2024 at 4:22 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

Lay your hands on one or more copies of Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised in Brief ¹ (3rd ed.).

Try to get some others in your group to at least get this book too.  

[Gary Novosielski]

On 1/13/2024 at 10:15 PM, Guest Steve said:

Try to get some others in your group to at least get this book too.  

Yeah, that was what the other copies were for.

[Paul Hunter]

I have the following books now

     Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 12th edition
     Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised In Brief, 3rd edition
     Robert's Rules: QuickStart Guide - The Simplified Beginner's Guide to Robert's Rules of Order

     Now I just need to read and practice somehow....

Thanks everyone

[Rob Elsman]

That's great. You will find that parliamentary procedure is like a gushing fountain--you can't drink all of it in one gulp.  Just take one gulp at a time.

[Josh Martin]

On 1/17/2024 at 5:07 PM, Paul Hunter said:

I have the following books now

     Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 12th edition
     Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised In Brief, 3rd edition
     Robert's Rules: QuickStart Guide - The Simplified Beginner's Guide to Robert's Rules of Order

     Now I just need to read and practice somehow....

Thanks everyone

I'd advise reading "Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised In Brief, 3rd edition" as a starting point and using the full book as a reference.

I'm not sure about this "Robert's Rules: QuickStart Guide - The Simplified Beginner's Guide to Robert's Rules of Order." This is a third party guide, and it does not seem to have a reputable parliamentarian attached to it as the author.

[Paul Hunter]

Thanks Josh!