Changing length of current delegate terms.

[Drake Savory]

We have a group of delegates and they are elected to 3 year terms.  Some of them are serving starting this year so we have classes of those with one year left, some with 2 years left and some with three terms left.  The three classes are unequal in size.  We want to change to terms of two years with half in each class i.e. half are elected each year.  It can be done through a complicated set of rules and given enough time, and I am thinking we can't just change an elected delegate's (elected by the membership if important) term unless through discipline but please, I hope I wrong on this.  I'm also sure that we could change terms through a bylaws amendment but let's throw that idea away.

 

So is there a simple way to change the delegates' term without touching the bylaws?  Note if needed: the method of election and terms are in our standing rules not the bylaws.   

[Joshua Katz]

On 11/28/2024 at 10:19 AM, Drake Savory said:

I am thinking we can't just change an elected delegate's (elected by the membership if important) term unless through discipline

Well, you can, but

On 11/28/2024 at 10:19 AM, Drake Savory said:

I'm also sure that we could change terms through a bylaws amendment but let's throw that idea away.

You've thrown away the way to do that.

[Richard Brown]

I agree with Mr. Katz.  I think the only way you can change the terms like you want to do is via a bylaw amendment.

[Dan Honemann]

On 11/28/2024 at 12:19 PM, Drake Savory said:

So is there a simple way to change the delegates' term without touching the bylaws?  Note if needed: the method of election and terms are in our standing rules not the bylaws.   

What, exactly, do your bylaws say about this?

[Richard Brown]

On 11/28/2024 at 11:19 AM, Drake Savory said:

Note if needed: the method of election and terms are in our standing rules not the bylaws.   

Ahh, I missed this earlier.  Now that I'm aware of it, like Mr. Honemann, I want to know what the bylaws say about it.

[Joshua Katz]

I missed it as well.

[Drake Savory]

On 11/28/2024 at 12:18 PM, Dan Honemann said:

What, exactly, do your bylaws say about this?

Nothing whatsoever. Everything associated with terms and election rules etc. are in the standing rules.  This was done so that if the parent organization changed the rules for how we elect delegates we just need to amend the standing rules, not the bylaws. 

[Dan Honemann]

On 11/28/2024 at 4:00 PM, Drake Savory said:

Nothing whatsoever. Everything associated with terms and election rules etc. are in the standing rules.  This was done so that if the parent organization changed the rules for how we elect delegates we just need to amend the standing rules, not the bylaws. 

Well, if you are right about this why don't you just go ahead and amend these standing rules so they say what you want them to say, using the rules in Section 35 of RONR?

[Drake Savory]

On 11/28/2024 at 3:11 PM, Dan Honemann said:

Well, if you are right about this why don't you just go ahead and amend these standing rules so they say what you want them to say, using the rules in Section 35 of RONR?

I'll look over that section.  Would it change the terms for the delegates currently elected?

[Dan Honemann]

On 11/29/2024 at 2:03 AM, Drake Savory said:

I'll look over that section.  Would it change the terms for the delegates currently elected?

Well since, according to you, your bylaws have absolutely nothing to say about this, this leaves your standing rules as the supreme authority concerning terms in office.  In this situation, an amendment to your standing rules can change the terms for delegates currently in office just as a bylaw amendment can change the terms in office of officers currently in office when the bylaws establish those terms in office.  

This assumes (a big assumption) that the body that enacted these standing rules and will now amend them had, and continues to have, full authority to do so, and that nothing in your bylaws or the rules of your parent assembly interferes.  In such a case, it seems to me that the provisions of RONR, 12th ed., 57:15-17, will apply to amendments to your standing rules here, just as they apply to bylaw amendments there.

[Drake Savory]

On 11/29/2024 at 6:18 AM, Dan Honemann said:

In this situation, an amendment to your standing rules can change the terms for delegates currently in office just as a bylaw amendment can change the terms in office of officers currently in office when the bylaws establish those terms in office.  

Thank you.  I was worried it was one of those things in parliamentary law that you can do in bylaws but not in the rules.

On 11/29/2024 at 6:18 AM, Dan Honemann said:

This assumes (a big assumption) that the body that enacted these standing rules and will now amend them had, and continues to have, full authority to do so, and that nothing in your bylaws or the rules of your parent assembly interferes.

That is correct.  The only limitation is that our rules must follow the parent organization rules.  For example, the membership fills any vacancy through election so we had to change the rule allowing the President to appoint to fill a vacancy. 

[Drake Savory]

So I understand this parliamentary rule better, suppose the bylaws say we elect a President but the term is in the standing rules.  Could one amend just the standing rules to  remove a sitting President?  Example, the standing rule says the term is January 1 to December 31 but in March this is amended to read April 1 to March 31.  Is the President out as of the end of March?  Would it make a difference if in the bylaws it is stated specifically the term is in the standing rules?

[Dan Honemann]

On 11/29/2024 at 7:42 PM, Drake Savory said:

So I understand this parliamentary rule better, suppose the bylaws say we elect a President but the term is in the standing rules.  Could one amend just the standing rules to  remove a sitting President?  Example, the standing rule says the term is January 1 to December 31 but in March this is amended to read April 1 to March 31.  Is the President out as of the end of March?  Would it make a difference if in the bylaws it is stated specifically the term is in the standing rules?

In response to this question I will refer you to the last paragraph of my immediately preceding response.  After you've read that paragraph again (and keeping in mind what is said in its first sentence), take a careful look at what is said in 57:16 which I said seems to me applies in your situation to amendments to your standing rules concerning terms in office of your delegates, just as it applies to bylaw amendments concerning terms in office.   

[Drake Savory]

On 11/29/2024 at 6:40 PM, Dan Honemann said:

take a careful look at what is said in 57:16 which I said seems to me applies in your situation to amendments to your standing rules concerning terms in office of your delegates, just as it applies to bylaw amendments concerning terms in office.   

Thanks for that.  I had read that but was curious if it was also the same for standing rule amendments to since I know that things can be in bylaws that are not allowed in standing rules.