Decorum

[Guest Jean]

I attended an open exective board meeting on May 6, 2010. The meeting occurred some 10 days after our election of new officers--I was elected president but I will not assume my duties until June 1. During the meeting one of the board members shouted out that the election was a "white conspiracy." I said "Point of order" The president did nothing. The board member then verbally attacked me personally and professionally. I am not going into the sordid details because they are very disturbing. I called "point of order" three times. THe president did nothing and neither did any one of five other members who were in attendance. I did the worst thing possible--I gave into my emotions and walked out. The president has not called a meeting to censure or suspend the member who was totally out of line. There hasn't been a hint of apology. Do I have any recourse?

[Kim Goldsworthy]

No.

When the chair won't enforce the rules of decorum (and when the chair has no idea how to handle a legitimate point of order), and the members themselves won't enforce the rules of decorum, then you have no "recourse."

Someone must know parliamentary procedure, and insist on civil behavior.

A minority of one (you!) isn't enough.

Sorry.

[Josh Martin]

Do I have any recourse?

Get some of the members on your side and pass a motion of censure if you want. If you want something more severe then see Ch. XX of RONR or check your Bylaws for disciplinary procedures.

If you can't get at least a majority on your side then any other recourse would be something to ask a lawyer about.

[hmtcastle]

I was elected president but I will not assume my duties until June 1. . . . Do I have any recourse?

You described it as an "open" board meeting so it's not clear whether you were a member of the board (and, if not, it would have been you who were out of order for speaking at all), but you'll be president in less than a week and can usher in a new period of decorum . . . and justice for all.

[Guest Jean]

You described it as an "open" board meeting so it's not clear whether you were a member of the board (and, if not, it would have been you who were out of order for speaking at all), but you'll be president in less than a week and can usher in a new period of decorum . . . and justice for all.

No I am not a board member. the memo that went out was a set-up--I think it was a last "hurrah" because they had been voted out of office--they personally invited all of the newly elected officers--in the interest of "solidarity". I was the only one stupid enough to go. I ran for office because the officers were a clique who made up their own rules and noone would stand up to them--I won by a landslide, as did 5 othe fair-minded people. I'm glad that my walking out did not affect the possibility of sanctioning these people--believe me--they will do this again--not as officers but as members-we'll get them then---their power has diminished, but they will try any way. Thankyou all for your helpful comments.

[Mr. J!]

I did the worst thing possible--I gave into my emotions and walked out.

Walking out may have been the best of the very limited options you had at the time. As a non-member of the body that was meeting, you had no right to speak in debate or make points of order. In fact, strictly speaking, you had no rights at all under parliamentary procedure at that meeting.

Between now and the next meeting, when you preside, get a copy of RONR and study the sections on the duties of the presiding officer. It sounds like this organization will need a very skilled one.

[Rob Elsman]

As I understand the facts, you are not a member of the board until June 1st, so it was indecorous for you to make a disturbance during the board's meeting. You were lucky you were not ejected from the meeting room, which is what I would have done had I been in the chair, RONR (10th ed.), p. 625, ll. 19-35.

[Trina]

...they personally invited all of the newly elected officers--in the interest of "solidarity". I was the only one stupid enough to go....

As I understand the facts, you are not a member of the board until June 1st, so it was indecorous for you to make a disturbance during the board's meeting. You were lucky you were not ejected from the meeting room, which is what I would have done had I been in the chair, RONR (10th ed.), p. 625, ll. 19-35.

Given that an invitation was extended to the new board members, it would have been pretty darn rude to throw them out when they appeared in response to the invitation. Also, it isn't that unusual (in small informal groups anyway) to have an 'overlap' meeting which old and new members both attend, in order to pass on information in an amicable and cooperative way. Unfortunately, that's not what played out in the meeting described here.

ETA: And I'm not saying that old and new members are ALL members at the same time in the sort of combined meeting I described, or that they all get to vote -- it's just a meeting with invited guests. Mr. Elsman is correct, of course, that a visitor doesn't have the right to call a point of order, but the chair should still have tried to rein in the rude board member. Throwing out the invited visitor seems like an odd way to deal with the described situation.

[Rob Elsman]

Given that an invitation was extended to the new board members, it would have been pretty darn rude to throw them out when they appeared in response to the invitation. Also, it isn't that unusual (in small informal groups anyway) to have an 'overlap' meeting which old and new members both attend, in order to pass on information in an amicable and cooperative way. Unfortunately, that's not what played out in the meeting described here.

ETA: And I'm not saying that old and new members are ALL members at the same time in the sort of combined meeting I described, or that they all get to vote -- it's just a meeting with invited guests. Mr. Elsman is correct, of course, that a visitor doesn't have the right to call a point of order, but the chair should still have tried to rein in the rude board member. Throwing out the invited visitor seems like an odd way to deal with the described situation.

I'm not excusing what the board member might have said, but it is certainly the duty of the president not to let a non-member disturb the proceedings three times. The board member has the right to a disciplinary procedure for his offense, if any, committed in the meeting; the non-member does not.

[Guest Jean]

I'm not excusing what the board member might have said, but it is certainly the duty of the president not to let a non-member disturb the proceedings three times. The board member has the right to a disciplinary procedure for his offense, if any, committed in the meeting; the non-member does not.

Not only were the newly elected officers invited, but we were sent a reminder of the meeting--that is why i stated that I felt it was a set-up. Prior to the litany of insults, I was asked to give my opinion on a number of topics which included my opinion on an email that was sent to the state association, and how I would respond to the possibility of a rerun of the election. I have a copy of Robert's Rules--this was an unusual circumstance and I attended because I was under he impression that it was a good will gesture--the board had been contentious at membership meetings throughout the year. When we were invited it was under the guise of "solidarity"--the word was used in the invitation.

[Trina]

Not only were the newly elected officers invited, but we were sent a reminder of the meeting--that is why i stated that I felt it was a set-up. Prior to the litany of insults, I was asked to give my opinion on a number of topics which included my opinion on an email that was sent to the state association, and how I would respond to the possibility of a rerun of the election. I have a copy of Robert's Rules--this was an unusual circumstance and I attended because I was under he impression that it was a good will gesture--the board had been contentious at membership meetings throughout the year. When we were invited it was under the guise of "solidarity"--the word was used in the invitation.

One wonders what on earth was meant by the 'rerun of the election' idea. In any case, infuriating as the experience surely was, you will be president the day after tomorrow (and, as you said, 5 other new people will be on the board also), so perhaps the need for 'recourse' will not be so urgent? In a parliamentary sense, there is no recourse after the fact if the chair fails to respond properly at the time someone tries to make a point of order (unless a continuing breach is involved, which certainly doesn't appear to be the case here). Certainly there is no recourse if a non-member tries to raise a point of order and is not recognized. Most errors in parliamentary procedure have to be dealt with on the spot; afterward they are irrelevant.

As Mr. Elsman pointed out, there is the possibility of disciplinary action against the rude board member... perhaps... but you'd have to decide if it's worth trying to pursue that route.

[Rob Elsman]

One wonders what on earth was meant by the 'rerun of the election' idea. In any case, infuriating as the experience surely was, you will be president the day after tomorrow (and, as you said, 5 other new people will be on the board also), so perhaps the need for 'recourse' will not be so urgent? In a parliamentary sense, there is no recourse after the fact if the chair fails to respond properly at the time someone tries to make a point of order (unless a continuing breach is involved, which certainly doesn't appear to be the case here). Certainly there is no recourse if a non-member tries to raise a point of order and is not recognized. Most errors in parliamentary procedure have to be dealt with on the spot; afterward they are irrelevant.

As Mr. Elsman pointed out, there is the possibility of disciplinary action against the rude board member... perhaps... but you'd have to decide if it's worth trying to pursue that route.

I'm less certain than you that the possibility of disciplinary action against the rude board member was what I was particularly trying to point out.

[Guest Jean]

I'm less certain than you that the possibility of disciplinary action against the rude board member was what I was particularly trying to point out.

All points well taken. What happened to me will never happen on my watch. Unhappy with the results that were so overwhelmingly against them, the former board was addicted to drama and there is evidence against malfaesance throught their reign--rather than fighting back, most became apathetic. Because this is a union associated with work, it is always in the best interest of the membership for officers to present a united front. That has not happened in awhile--I don't take it personally--it was a sign of desperation. There is no revenge factor either--that hurts everybody. But I will not allow them to walk allover the members or to disrupt the fairness and peace that I will promote beginning on day one of my 2 year term. Thankyou all for telling the truth and for your words of encouragement.