Board elections

[Susanner]

1) Is it a violation the Sunshine Law for some board members, but not to include ALL of them, to get together prior to a board election and count the proxies (especially as the proxies will most likely determine the outcome of the election prior to the election itself)? *The "excuse" used is that it will save time having to count them at the meeting itself.

2) Is it appropriate for proxies to be withheld from their appointed proxy holder(s) at a board election and told that, should they wish to review them, they can come to the office after the election has been tallied and results had already been announced to the membership.

3) If the By-Laws state that all proxies must be delivered to the Association office prior to an election, does a "proxy holder" have the right to be the one to deliver them personally? Or must they all be mailed directly to the office, bypassing the proxy holder.

4) If an Association uses Robert's Rules of Order as a "Guideline" to running their Association., do they they have the right to "pick and choose" which rules they wish to follow at any given time, because, after all, it is only a "guideline".

Thank you for your consideration!

[Chris Harrison]

1) That is a legal question beyond this forum's purview. You will need to ask a lawyer.

2,3) Proxy voting is not permitted unless the bylaws specifically permit it (RONR pp. 408-409). If proxy voting is allowed you all will have to work out the details.

4) That is up to you all to decide. See RONR pp. 570-573 for some guidelines to interpret your "guidelines".

[Kim Goldsworthy]

1) Is it a violation the Sunshine Law ...

2) Is it appropriate for proxies to be withheld ...

3) If the By-Laws state that all proxies must be delivered to the Association office prior to an election, does a "proxy holder" have the right to ...

4) If an Association uses Robert's Rules of Order as a "Guideline" to running their Association., do they they have the right to "pick and choose" which rules they wish to follow at any given time, because, after all, it is only a "guideline".

1. Sunshine laws, a.k.a. "open meeting laws" are (cough!) LAWS. Parliamentarians do not practice law and give legal advice (unless a given parliamentarian is licensed by the bar to practice law and thus give legal advice). The Book (Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 10th ed.) has nothing to say about "sunshine laws."

2. Proxies are not allowed by RONR. So RONR won't have any administrative rules about proxies.

3. Proxies are not allowed by RONR. So RONR won't have any administrative rules about proxies.

4. Yes. Everyone has the right to pick and choose rules to obey where the rules are not binding on them.

There is a difference between (a.) a parliamentary authority, vs. (b.) a guideline.

• A parliamentary authority are rules of order which apply to the organization. They are binding on the organization because they were adopted.

• A guideline is just a guideline, and is not binding on the organization. No one is committed a "guideline."

Just as The Ten Commandments are a guidelines - no need to obey any of them, since they are guidelines for most people, and not recognized by many as binding on you; and are only The Ten Suggestions, for most people who have not recognized them as having any authority over them.

Analogy: If you had a guideline for home plumbing repairs - do you need to obey all the descriptions and cautions in your handbook's "guidelines" regarding safety, water pressure, physics, building codes? No, you can violate those guidelines. And you'll pay a steep price for doing so. But no nanny is going to stand over you and say, "Tut, tut! Ungalvanized connector seals will corrode!"

[Josh Martin]

4) If an Association uses Robert's Rules of Order as a "Guideline" to running their Association., do they they have the right to "pick and choose" which rules they wish to follow at any given time, because, after all, it is only a "guideline".

If it truly is a "guideline" - that is RONR is not your parliamentary authority, then RONR may be persuasive in matters of parliamentary procedure, but it is not binding on your association. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 16, lines 17-29)

My experience on this forum has shown me, however, that many people claim that RONR is only a "guideline" even when it is stated as the organization's parliamentary authority, which is false. In such a case, the rules are binding on the association in all cases in which they are not inconsistent with higher-level rules. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 16, lines 8-14) Many rules can be suspended, but this requires a 2/3 vote, (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 256, lines 13-24) and some rules cannot be suspended. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 254, line 28 - pg. 256, line 11)