Guest Kyle Posted June 15, 2010 at 06:40 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 06:40 PM If the floor is voting and the majority vote wins, is it necessary to vote for and against the proposed topic in order to get an accurate total for the minutes. For instance if we are voting for coke or pepsi, If we vote for coke and it's over half of the membership present should we have to vote for the pepsi to make it legal or can we stop with only voting for the coke.Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted June 15, 2010 at 06:49 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 06:49 PM If the floor is voting and the majority vote wins, is it necessary to vote for and against the proposed topic in order to get an accurate total for the minutes. For instance if we are voting for coke or pepsi, If we vote for coke and it's over half of the membership present should we have to vote for the pepsi to make it legal or can we stop with only voting for the coke.One vote on the motion is sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted June 15, 2010 at 06:56 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 06:56 PM In most cases, both the affirmative and the negative must be put when one of the regular methods of voting is used. RONR (10th ed.), p. 396, ll. 8-13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted June 15, 2010 at 07:41 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 07:41 PM In most cases, both the affirmative and the negative must be put when one of the regular methods of voting is used. RONR (10th ed.), p. 396, ll. 8-13.Clearly Mr. Elsman and I read the same question in two different ways. Though I trust we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted June 15, 2010 at 08:26 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 08:26 PM For instance if we are voting for Coke or Pepsi, If we vote for coke and it's over half of the membership present should we have to vote for the Pepsi to make it legal or can we stop with only voting for the Coke.This quandary could have been avoided if voting by ballot.Since the choice is not a forced choice, that is, you are under NO obligation to choose a beverage, then the appropriate method for non-forced choice is to vote for all options plus no option.E.g.:1. Coke2. Pepi3. Royal Crown3. Neither Coke nor Pepsi nor Royal CrownJust as when you are choosing to sell property, you may choose between:1. $200,0003. $300,0002. $400,0003. Don't sell.Nothing wrong with maintaining the status quo - to take no action toward any option(s).Extreme example:Given a choice of sponsoring car washes on (a.) Vine St. vs. (b.) Sunset Blvd., the voting members might decide that sponsoring a car wash is actually degrading an inappropriate for an metropolitan art museum's capital-raising venture, altogether.You don't HAVE to hold a car wash. You can do something else.The voters should have a way of saying "No," and keeping the status quo in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted June 15, 2010 at 08:32 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 08:32 PM Am I the only one who has trouble with Kim's sample ballots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Confused Posted June 15, 2010 at 08:39 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 08:39 PM Am I the only one who has trouble with Kim's sample ballots?Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted June 15, 2010 at 08:41 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 08:41 PM If the floor is voting and the majority vote wins, is it necessary to vote for and against the proposed topic in order to get an accurate total for the minutes. For instance if we are voting for coke or pepsi, If we vote for coke and it's over half of the membership present should we have to vote for the pepsi to make it legal or can we stop with only voting for the coke.Thank youAn assembly doesn't vote for or against a proposed "topic", it votes for or against a proposed motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted June 15, 2010 at 08:47 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 08:47 PM Am I the only one who has trouble with Kim's sample ballots?That's highly unlikely.Though I'd vote for 2. Pepi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted June 15, 2010 at 09:00 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 09:00 PM Though I'd vote for 2. PepiPepi...is that some sort of off brand of Jolt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kyle Posted June 15, 2010 at 09:25 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 09:25 PM Here is what happened.1. We were told to stand and count how many members were present. There were 86 members (The counting of the membership should have never been done because it should have been a majority vote in my opinion)2. Then were told to vote for "Pepsi"3. After the count was taken we noticed it should have only been 85 members because one member counted was not a voting member, and 46 members voted for "Pepsi" therefore "Pepsi" was ruled the winner without giving people to satisfaction of voting against it. Here is what my questions are. Was it an illegal vote because 1. we counted the membership when in a majority vote should have never been done. 2. There were members that weren't allowed to vote because it was ruled majority just by a head count of the membership.Hope that helps with the questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted June 15, 2010 at 09:35 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 09:35 PM Here is what happened.1. We were told to stand and count how many members were present. There were 86 members (The counting of the membership should have never been done because it should have been a majority vote in my opinion)2. Then were told to vote for "Pepsi"3. After the count was taken we noticed it should have only been 85 members because one member counted was not a voting member, and 46 members voted for "Pepsi" therefore "Pepsi" was ruled the winner without giving people to satisfaction of voting against it. Here is what my questions are. Was it an illegal vote because 1. we counted the membership when in a majority vote should have never been done. 2. There were members that weren't allowed to vote because it was ruled majority just by a head count of the membership.Hope that helps with the questions...Well, it wasn't the proper procedure but it's too late now to complain about it (i.e. raise a point of order). It seems clear that a majority was in favor of Pepsi even though some didn't have the "satisfaction" of voting against it.Next time do it right.And don't forget that the decision is not carved in stone. If you can find enough members to switch from Pepsi to Coke, go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted June 15, 2010 at 09:52 PM Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 at 09:52 PM As I'm sure Kim knows, a vote of "don't sell" is a motion proprosing the assembly take no action (p. 100). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted June 16, 2010 at 04:42 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 at 04:42 PM If the floor is voting and the majority vote wins, is it necessary to vote for and against the proposed topic in order to get an accurate total for the minutes. For instance if we are voting for coke or pepsi, If we vote for coke and it's over half of the membership present should we have to vote for the pepsi to make it legal or can we stop with only voting for the coke.Generally speaking, the assembly should be voting "yes" or "no" on a motion proposing that the assembly take some action. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 26, lines 19-24; pg. 43, lines 11-15) The only instance when you would be voting on "coke" or "pepsi" is if the assembly is filling a blank. In such a case, the first proposal to receive a majority vote fills the blank, although the main motion must still be adopted by a majority vote. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 156, lines 32-35; pg. 159, lines 22-25)Since the choice is not a forced choice, that is, you are under NO obligation to choose a beverage, then the appropriate method for non-forced choice is to vote for all options plus no option.Even if the assembly fills the blank by ballot, the same procedure is used - the assembly first votes to fill the blank and then votes on the main motion. It is not appropriate to "vote for all options plus no option" at once. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 159, lines 22-25)1. Coke2. Pepi3. Royal Crown3. Neither Coke nor Pepsi nor Royal CrownThe "Neither Coke nor Pepsi nor Royal Crown" option should most certainly not be used. If the intent is to provide for members to select another variety of beverage, the option should read "other" or "write-in" followed by a blank line. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 399, line 32 - pg. 400, line 4) If the intent is for members to have no beverage at all, that can be accomplished by members defeating the main motion. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 132, lines 5-12)Just as when you are choosing to sell property, you may choose between:1. $200,0003. $300,0002. $400,0003. Don't sell.The "Don't sell" option should most certainly not be used. That can be accomplished by members defeating the main motion. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 132, lines 5-12)Given a choice of sponsoring car washes on (a.) Vine St. vs. (b.) Sunset Blvd., the voting members might decide that sponsoring a car wash is actually degrading an inappropriate for an metropolitan art museum's capital-raising venture, altogether.You don't HAVE to hold a car wash. You can do something else.The voters should have a way of saying "No," and keeping the status quo in place.Yes, and this is accomplished by defeating the main motion - or by amending it, in this case, if the members just wish to do "something else." (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 159, lines 22-25; pg. 132, lines 5-12; pg. 125, lines 1-6) Was it an illegal vote because 1. we counted the membership when in a majority vote should have never been done. 2. There were members that weren't allowed to vote because it was ruled majority just by a head count of the membership.This was, of course, improper, but it's too late to raise a Point of Order now. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 43, lines 15-17; pg. 159, lines 22-25; pg. 243, lines 19-20; pg. 243, line 32 - pg. 244, line 3) The motion may be rescinded if the action that was proposed has not yet been carried out, which requires a 2/3 vote, a vote of a majority of the entire membership, or a majority vote with previous notice. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 294, lines 24-27; pg. 297, lines 32-35; pg. 295, lines 24-31) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest john Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:00 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:00 PM Do offiers or board of directors have a vote during a general election of new officers or by law amendments, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:01 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:01 PM Do offiers or board of directors have a vote during a general election of new officers or by law amendments, etc...ALL members can vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Ligos Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:05 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:05 PM Thanks for the quick response. How do you handle the voting process if an officer or board member is eligible to place multiple votes because of the additional membership or positions they may have within an organization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:16 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:16 PM Thanks for the quick response. How do you handle the voting process if an officer or board member is eligible to place multiple votes because of the additional membership or positions they may have within an organization?Each member has only one vote, regardless of how many hats he wears.At a meeting of the general membership, the fact that a person might also be a member of the board or a member of the Boy Scouts is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:21 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:21 PM .... is eligible to place multiple votes because of the additional membership or positions they may have within an organization?Interesting. Kyle, why do you "think" this is true (having multiple votes)? Is this something you've been told? By, say.... Mr. ManyHats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:39 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 at 05:39 PM Interesting. Kyle . . . Kyle did not ask that question. Mr. Ligos asked it . . . and not just here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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