When is a delegate present at a meeting?

[Guest Grumpycurl@Yahoo.com]

If a delegate or delegates to an Annual Meeting has checked into the meeting, but is NOT actually in the meeting room when a vote is called, are they actually entitled to demand a revote?

Our Parlimentarian ruled that only those Delegates actually in the room for a vote are to be counted in determining a 2/3 majority. Now some are challenging that ruling.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

If a delegate or delegates to an Annual Meeting has checked into the meeting, but is NOT actually in the meeting room when a vote is called, are they actually entitled to demand a revote?

"... not actually in the meeting room ..."

Can they call for a revote? - Not while they are OUTSIDE.

Do you mean, they are on the roof? at home? driving to/from the meeting hall?

They are NOT present, if that is where they are.

Our Parlimentarian ruled that only those Delegates actually in the room for a vote are to be counted in determining a 2/3 majority. Now some are challenging that ruling.

If Robert's Rules of Order applies, then a quorum COUNT is based on those members who are PRESENT, not merely checked in, nor merely credentialed.

You don't count those who are outside of the meeting room, even if credentialed. They are not present. So they contribute nothing toward counting up who is present.

[Tim Wynn]

If a delegate or delegates to an Annual Meeting has checked into the meeting, but is NOT actually in the meeting room when a vote is called, are they actually entitled to demand a revote?

Nope. The right to vote is limited to those members actually present in a meeting.

Our Parlimentarian ruled that only those Delegates actually in the room for a vote are to be counted in determining a 2/3 majority.

In determining the result of a vote, only members present AND voting are factored -- not just every member in the room. If three members vote, two thirds would be two votes, regardless of how many are in attendance.

Now some are challenging that ruling.

Parliamentarians don't make rulings. They only give opinions. It is up to the chair to rule, subject to appeal.

[Guest Nancy N.]

Grumpycurl, are you asking whether a member who was absent for a vote at one meeting has the right to address that vote at some other meeting?

(-- Or, per your parliamentarian, whether that person, at the later meeting, would count towards a 2/3 vote on that subject?)

[Mr. J!]

...are they actually entitled to demand a revote?

Let's open this can of worms. What do you mean by "revote"? Reconsider? (page 304) Rescind? (page 293) Something else?

[David A Foulkes]

If a delegate or delegates to an Annual Meeting has checked into the meeting, but is NOT actually in the meeting room when a vote is called, are they actually entitled to demand a revote?

Our Parlimentarian ruled that only those Delegates actually in the room for a vote are to be counted in determining a 2/3 majority. Now some are challenging that ruling.

If Robert's Rules of Order applies, then a quorum COUNT is based on those members who are PRESENT, not merely checked in, nor merely credentialed.

You don't count those who are outside of the meeting room, even if credentialed. They are not present. So they contribute nothing toward counting up who is present.

Grumpycurl, are these members asking for a revote because they simply weren't in the room at the time of the vote, or because they believe there was some impropriety in the manner the vote was handled? If they simply weren't in the room of their own volition, I'd suspect the vote is valid. If the vote was arranged to be taken at a time when their absence was expected, there may be an issue worthy of a Point of Order. However, page 586 clearly describes the duties of delegates, and those duties include being present at the business meetings, and all that that entails (voting including). If they stepped out for a coffee break at a time when the meeting was in full swing, then they're possibly out of luck. You gotta stay to play.

Kim - although Grumpycurl made no mention of quorum, the top of page 598 does indicate that (absent a bylaw or standing rule defining quorum) the quorum is "is a majority of the number of voting members who have actually registered, irrespective of whether some may have departed." I'm not sure if the word "departed" as used here means they have simply left the room, or have in fact gone home. But I think Grumpcurl was referring to the calculation of a 2/3's vote and whether that count should include credentialed delegates who were not in the room at the time of the vote.

But only Grumpycurl can answer these questions, with a bit of clarification on the original post.

ETA:

[should have been page 599 above - regrets]

[Trina]

If a delegate or delegates to an Annual Meeting has checked into the meeting, but is NOT actually in the meeting room when a vote is called, are they actually entitled to demand a revote?

Our Parlimentarian ruled that only those Delegates actually in the room for a vote are to be counted in determining a 2/3 majority. Now some are challenging that ruling.

I'm interpreting the question somewhat differently than other posters so far. I'm imagining the delegate walking in on the tail end of the vote (voice vote or show of hands), and demanding a division, or making a motion that a rising vote be counted (RONR p. 396). If that is the case, the member walking in late has the same rights as any other member, as soon as he/she is present in the meeting room.

The mention of the parliamentarian's ruling, which is on a different issue, certainly casts doubt on my interpretation of the original question...

Grumpycurl (nice name, by the way), can you clarify what you mean by 'demand a revote' -- did the demand for revote happen right after the initial vote (as I'm picturing), or was it long after the fact? And why was a '2/3 majority' required -- was that the margin required on the original motion, or did it have something to do with the demand for revote?

[hmtcastle]

Grumpycurl (nice name, by the way) . . .

I thought the name was "Grumpycurl@Yahoo.com".

[Kim Goldsworthy]

Kim - although Grumpycurl made no mention of quorum, the top of page 598 does indicate that (absent a bylaw or standing rule defining quorum) the quorum is "is a majority of the number of voting members who have actually registered, irrespective of whether some may have departed." I'm not sure if the word "departed" as used here means they have simply left the room, or have in fact gone home. But I think Grumpcurl was referring to the calculation of a 2/3's vote and whether that count should include credentialed delegates who were not in the room at the time of the vote.

That is one reading.

Maybe I had focused on the wrong end of the calculation?

Maybe the question was focused on what BASE NUMBER to use?

Review:

Our Parliamentarian ruled that only those Delegates actually in the room for a vote are to be counted in determining a 2/3 majority.

Of course.

Keyword = "in the room."

It would be an error to COUNT OUT LOUD (a.) those present; plus (b.) those absent; and then blend the two totals together in a meaningful number. For any purpose.

THAT was my focus. - You never do a count on 'how many delegates are absent.' - That number is meaningless.

(But, again, the poster might be asking about the BASE NUMBER, and not really asking, "Whom shall we count AS BEING PRESENT".)