Voting on removal

[J. J.]

What I hope will be quick question.

An officer is facing disciplinary action, expulsion from office.

A. In the case the bylaws define his term as a fixed term "and until his successor is elected," is a ballot vote required at the demand of one member?

B. In the case the bylaws define his term as a fixed term "or until his successor is elected," is a ballot vote required at the demand of one member?

My gut reaction:

A. No.

B. No.

[Larry Cisar]

What I hope will be quick question.

An officer is facing disciplinary action, expulsion from office.

A. In the case the bylaws define his term as a fixed term "and until his successor is elected," is a ballot vote required at the demand of one member?

B. In the case the bylaws define his term as a fixed term "or until his successor is elected," is a ballot vote required at the demand of one member?

My gut reaction:

A. No.

B. No.

Page 640 lines 9-13 leads me to say Yes to both cases.

[J. J.]

Except, at least in the case of B., this is neither a trial nor an offense at a meeting.

[Larry Cisar]

But it is a disciplinary matter. That is why I go for the ballot.

[J. J.]

But it is a disciplinary matter. That is why I go for the ballot.

It is disciplinary action, but the form is rescission of an election in the second case. Neither disciplining a member for an offense in a meeting nor a trial is in that form.

[Larry Cisar]

I think that J.J and I are going to disagree on what kicks in the ballot on demand of one. I go with it being a disciplinary matter and J.J. seems to be going with type of disciplinary action.

[hmtcastle]

I think that J.J and I are going to disagree on what kicks in the ballot on demand of one. I go with it being a disciplinary matter and J.J. seems to be going with type of disciplinary action.

I think it's been recently established on this forum that the only time an election can be rescinded is as part of a disciplinary procedure.

[Dan Honemann]

What I hope will be quick question.

Well, the question was quick, but the answer may not be.

I think the answer to A is clearly "yes", based on what is said on page 640, lines 9-12 (which follows from what is said on p. 398, l. 21-23), but I think the answer to B must be "no". The general rule is that a majority vote is required, and I find no specific exception to this rule in this instance.

[Guest NN]

Well, the question was quick, but the answer may not be.

I think the answer to A is clearly "yes", based on what is said on page 640, lines 9-12 (which follows from what is said on p. 398, l. 21-23), but I think the answer to B must be "no". The general rule is that a majority vote is required, and I find no specific exception to this rule in this instance.

To B must be "no" -- on ballot votes -- following from what is said on p. 398, lines 21 - 23?? Huh?

[Dan Honemann]

To B must be "no" -- on ballot votes -- following from what is said on p. 398, lines 21 - 23?? Huh?

Huh?

[Guest Nancy N.]

Huh?

Um. Ehh ... Yes to A, but No to B because ... your thinking is, no trial implies no single-member demand?

[Dan Honemann]

Um. Ehh ... Yes to A, but No to B because ... your thinking is, no trial implies no single-member demand?

No, my thinking is that, having found no specific exception (in the case of B as posited) to the general rule that a majority vote is required, then a majority vote is required.

[Guest Nancy N.]

No, my thinking is that, having found no specific exception (in the case of B as posited) to the general rule that a majority vote is required, then a majority vote is required.

Oho. So the single-member-demand instances are themselves exceptional cases, is that it?

[Dan Honemann]

Oho. So the single-member-demand instances are themselves exceptional cases, is that it?

Well, the instances where the rules say that a ballot vote must be taken upon demand of a single member are instances of specific exceptions to the rule that a majority vote is required.

[J. J.]

Well, the instances where the rules say that a ballot vote must be taken upon demand of a single member are instances of specific exceptions to the rule that a majority vote is required.

Dan, first, thank you. Thank you too Larry.

Second, I understand, and agree with your logic, (and Larry's) on case A. I'll reverse very quickly on Case A.

Third, I think that the idea that the trial trial to remove an officer requires a ballot on request while rescission does not is slightly weird. Absolutely correct, but still slightly weird. However, it is not as weird as many aspects of my life, and I easily live with this level of weirdness.