Difficult Transition of school organization

[hkline]

How does an incoming board for a school go about getting the outgoing board members (we are a board of 5 and only 1 member of the previous yr was re-elected) to abide by our bylaws. Our bylaws are very vague and therefore leaves a lot of "open areas for interpretation" ~ our outgoing P, VP and Sec. are to have turned over all of their information by today's date (6/30) as we took office 6/1, and our T and AT have until 7/31 to turn over all their info. Our P feels the need to still be on the bank account, and seems to feel that they are above our by-laws that clearly state that all materials are to be delivered to incoming board members today. I am trying to be the calm in the storm, however have a few new board members questioning why I am not "barking" on the hour.

I have tried to find somewhere in RROO an area that would clearly state that once an executive board member is not re-elected they are to hand over all materials no questions asked and step down and remove their name/information from all materials pertaining to our organization, but am not able to find it in my book of RROO The modern edition, published 1989.

[Guest dan]

As far as the bank account is concerned, I would present a resolution to the bank designating who is authorized to be a signatory on the account. Make sure that all others are removed. If necessary, close the account and open a new account - transferring the balance to the new account. Request (demand) that the bank send back any checks not signed by the current designated signatory as of the date the new designated officers took office.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

I ... am not able to find it in my book of RROO The modern edition, published 1989.

Wrong book.

Use Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (10th ed. 2000).

Even with the right book, you won't find that explicit detail in the book.

The D-Day and H-Hour of the exchange of papers is not delineated in RONR Tenth Edition.

That's all administrative stuff to be executed OUTSIDE of a meeting context. - Before or after.

Non-officers should NOT be in possession of officer papers or officer archives. - They aren't in office, so they have no (more) authority to mess with organizational records.

[Josh Martin]

I have tried to find somewhere in RROO an area that would clearly state that once an executive board member is not re-elected they are to hand over all materials no questions asked and step down and remove their name/information from all materials pertaining to our organization, but am not able to find it in my book of RROO The modern edition, published 1989.

Well, for starters, you might want to get The Right Book rather than a knockoff. As noted, there is nothing in RONR on this matter as RONR primarily concerns itself with how to conduct meetings, not administrative details. But there doesn't need to be anything in RONR - your Bylaws trump RONR and it seems they are quite clear on this matter. If they refuse to comply, you may wish to take disciplinary action. Check your Bylaws, or Ch. XX of RONR if your Bylaws are silent on discipline. You may also need to work with your bank, and possibly a lawyer.

[Trina]

...

Our bylaws are very vague and therefore leaves a lot of "open areas for interpretation" ~ our outgoing P, VP and Sec. are to have turned over all of their information by today's date (6/30) as we took office 6/1, and our T and AT have until 7/31 to turn over all their info. Our P feels the need to still be on the bank account, and seems to feel that they are above our by-laws that clearly state that all materials are to be delivered to incoming board members today. I am trying to be the calm in the storm, however have a few new board members questioning why I am not "barking" on the hour.

I have tried to find somewhere in RROO an area that would clearly state that once an executive board member is not re-elected they are to hand over all materials no questions asked and step down and remove their name/information from all materials pertaining to our organization, but am not able to find it in my book of RROO The modern edition, published 1989.

Despite vagueness elsewhere, it sounds as though your bylaws are actually clear on this particular point, so you DO have a written rule to refer to. RONR won't provide you with an additional written rule specific to this outside-the-meeting responsibility, but, even if it did, there would still be the same problem of enforcement, which is what you are running into. The enforcing authority comes down to you (you personally, you the board, you the membership of the larger organization).

And stop calling yourselves the 'incoming' board members ; you've been IN for a month already -- you guys ARE the board. Similarly, the individual trying to maintain access to the bank account is not 'our President'; that's just someone who used to be President.

I'm curious -- were the treasurer and AT given an extra month to turn over their records, despite what it says in your bylaws about June 30? Or is their later deadline also explicitly mentioned in the bylaws? And is the ex-President perhaps hanging on longer because those other people still have their fingers in the pot?

[hkline]

our bylaws "fiscal year" is August 1 to July 1 ~ however the 2010-2011 board was voted and sworn in on May 4th / our bylaws state that the President, Vice-President and Secretary end office June 1 yet have until July 1st to turn in all items and then Treas. and Assist Treas. have until July 31 to turn over all items.

Our Assist. Treas. was the only member to go up for re-election and she is now our Secretary. The President and Treasurer have been questioned by many and yet we get the hampster wheel of answers. Also, we received laptops and records however the laptops were wiped clean, and the PTO email has been wiped clear of all emails and contacts ~ so I am now at the point of contacting our Superintendent to discuss what direction we should take, as they have no rights to delete information or contacts as they are only "holders" of the PTO information as are we, they are not "owners" of the information.

[hmtcastle]

they have no rights to delete information or contacts as they are only "holders" of the PTO information as are we, they are not "owners" of the information.

Stolen property? Call the cops.

[E A Lemoine]

How does an incoming board for a school go about getting the outgoing board members (we are a board of 5 and only 1 member of the previous yr was re-elected) to abide by our bylaws. Our bylaws are very vague and therefore leaves a lot of "open areas for interpretation" ~ our outgoing P, VP and Sec. are to have turned over all of their information by today's date (6/30) as we took office 6/1, and our T and AT have until 7/31 to turn over all their info. Our P feels the need to still be on the bank account, and seems to feel that they are above our by-laws that clearly state that all materials are to be delivered to incoming board members today. I am trying to be the calm in the storm, however have a few new board members questioning why I am not "barking" on the hour.

I have tried to find somewhere in RROO an area that would clearly state that once an executive board member is not re-elected they are to hand over all materials no questions asked and step down and remove their name/information from all materials pertaining to our organization, but am not able to find it in my book of RROO The modern edition, published 1989.

"Seems to feel", "feels". Your president has a lot of feelings, which are not relevant to the rules that exist.

As noted above, this is all administrative details. Even if something existed in RONR, you can't wave a wand and get the minutes, checkbook, and other organizational records. Contact the people to get the information -- do what YOU can individually. Generally, I'd avoid creating conflicts, as I have seen many organizational records go through paper shredders or into fire pits. Then you're back to square one!

[hkline]

We had an ER mtg last night and have decided to go forward and just wait for the transition of bank statements and the old T and the new T mtg to see just how the budget looks but most likely will be transferring all funds to a new bank ~ it still just boggles my mind that they deleted all records from the PTO's email and deleted (and the funny thing is you can "retrieve" records even though they may have been deleted from a computer ~ it just will tell you "unable to retrieve was transfered to an F drive) LOL o' well here we begin a new chapter ~ thank you for you help every1, and yes we will be contacting a lawyer with regards to getting a bylaw committee together to clear up the "gray areas"

[Guest Nancy N.]

We had an ER mtg last night and have decided to go forward and just wait for the transition of bank statements and the old T and the new T mtg to see just how the budget looks but most likely will be transferring all funds to a new bank ~ it still just boggles my mind that they deleted all records from the PTO's email and deleted (and the funny thing is you can "retrieve" records even though they may have been deleted from a computer ~ it just will tell you "unable to retrieve was transfered to an F drive) LOL o' well here we begin a new chapter ~ thank you for you help every1, and yes we will be contacting a lawyer with regards to getting a bylaw committee together to clear up the "gray areas"

[Guest Nancy N.]

(Blue Front Amazon, that's not what I meant.)

[hkline]

Ok ~ so things seem to still be hitting our new board ~ turns out the bank that the PTO has been involved with told our new Treasurer that in order for her to be on the account and our second signer (Vice President) be a signer they needed to come in with a copy of our bylaws and a copy of the minutes where it shows we've been voted in as the new board and sworn in. So Friday they went and brought that information ~ well now the bank will not allow them to be on the account because the 2nd signer from the previous board was the president and she refuses to sign off on the account until August 1st when the Treasurer signs off. My question is this:

When a board members description is clearly stated in the bylaws that come June 1st the new board member shall assume duties doesn't that basically mean that the outgoing member no longer has duties or RIGHTS to signing anything or seeing anything with regards to the executive board?

I am contacting a lawyer on Monday to clarify a few things with regards to our bylaws and the way they are written as I feel they need to clearly state start/end date AND to see how we go about changing a few other things.

Thank you again for your help

[Josh Martin]

When a board members description is clearly stated in the bylaws that come June 1st the new board member shall assume duties doesn't that basically mean that the outgoing member no longer has duties or RIGHTS to signing anything or seeing anything with regards to the executive board?

There is no such thing as an outgoing board member. You have board members and former board members. Former board members no longer have any of the rights or duties that come with membership on the board, with regards to signing things, seeing things, or anything else.

I am contacting a lawyer on Monday to clarify a few things with regards to our bylaws and the way they are written as I feel they need to clearly state start/end date AND to see how we go about changing a few other things.

Maybe you can talk to the lawyer about your rogue ex-board members too.

[hkline]

I have another question ~ 2 prior board members want to be chairs on our legislation committee, I am fine with it however they were very clear that they wanted NOTHING to do with PTO, and they stepped down from their other chair seats. I responded with the following ~

XXXX,

I was on facebook today and noticed that you left a post on the PTO fan page. It was my understanding from your June 4th email that you and several of last year's PTO board members had decided to walk away from the PTO and all related committees.

XXXXX and XXXX have agreed to co-chair Legislation. Since we both were on the bylaw committee, we are very familiar with the bylaws. We decided to co-chair this a while ago and have already purchased our RROR books- pretty sure our info was on the chairperson list . Thanks!

We would be happy to have you on the legislation committee, but feel the position of chair should be filled by someone who has much experience in this area. We are seeking someone who has sat on legislative/bylaw committees for other organizations and/or has previous experience with Roberts Rules of Order, other than the few short months of last years bylaw committee. We will be more than happy to forward all your information to the committee chair when filled.

Sincerely,

Heather

(their email from June 4th ~ We did decide not to run for the board and to drop our committee chairs. Speaking for myself, I made that decision because I refuse to bust my butt and spend hundreds of hours of work, for a group that has treated me so poorly. And on a side note for that portion NO we have NOT treated her/them poorly, we've simply asked questions that we have gotten NO STRAIGHT forward answer, as it is we still are missing documents, have no idea if we're incorporated or if we've (PTO) filed taxes etc etc.

Personally due to their LACK of RROR I feel it IS our best interested as a PTO (not just board - but entire membership) to have a Chair that has more than a short term status on a bylaw committee, we do have a mother that is HIGHLY knowlegeable in RROR and we have extended an offer to her to be our legistation chair and we have yet to hear back from her. Are we (or I) stepping over them, or due to their email from June stating they wanted nothing to do with us or the PTO ok with saying we will forward their information along when we feel appropriate?

Thank you!

[Josh Martin]

XXXXX and XXXX have agreed to co-chair Legislation. Since we both were on the bylaw committee, we are very familiar with the bylaws. We decided to co-chair this a while ago and have already purchased our RROR books- pretty sure our info was on the chairperson list .

RONR advises against "co-chairs," as do most on this forum. It tends to cause problems.

Personally due to their LACK of RROR I feel it IS our best interested as a PTO (not just board - but entire membership) to have a Chair that has more than a short term status on a bylaw committee, we do have a mother that is HIGHLY knowlegeable in RROR and we have extended an offer to her to be our legistation chair and we have yet to hear back from her. Are we (or I) stepping over them, or due to their email from June stating they wanted nothing to do with us or the PTO ok with saying we will forward their information along when we feel appropriate?

This is up to whoever has the authority to appoint committee chairs in your organization. No rule in RONR and no one on this forum is going to tell you who to appoint as committee chair. Whatever e-mails they have sent is really irrelevant. The appointing authority should act in the best interests of the organization.