Resolutions Committee Decisions

[Guest Jonathan]

My branch has 2 resolutions that they submitted to the Corporate Secretary. The Corp. Sec. went through every branches resolutions and made comments and cited/pointed to specific bylaws about why none of these resolutions would pass. Essentially, his argument against the Resolutions is that they would require the Board to make advisory opinions, which would not carry any weight.

"The board does not have the authority to set aside those agreements--as such this would be advisory, or at best require a future vote by the members to amend those agreements."

What procedure/steps would need to be taken/followed in order to bring up these resolutions at the annual convention? i.e. obtain the floor, then what motion, how to bring it about, how to challenge the Secretary's findings when he is not the resolution committee director etc.

[STA]

The answers to all your questions should be found in your bylaws, which, naturally, we have not read and can't interpret.

Good luck.

[Guest Jonathan]

The Bylaws simply say that Resolutions can be approved by a 2/3 vote at the convention. However, the Bylaws allow Robert's Rules to do the heavy lifting as it says that the rules are adopted as the rules of the organization. So essentially, regardless of what you think you know is in the bylaws of this organization, they say that the rules to follow are the RR's. I was just curious how the RR's would challenge a resolution committee's decision on a proposed resolution.

[George Mervosh]

Who says a resolution vetting process needs to take place at all?

[Guest Jonathan]

Pg. 614, Lines 3-8

"The Resolutions Committee has as its basic purpose the screening of all original main motions that have not been screened by another committee and that come--or are to come--before the convention"

[Kim Goldsworthy]

My branch has 2 resolutions that they submitted to the Corporate Secretary.

Why? This is unnecessary.

The Corp. Sec. went through every branches resolutions and made comments and cited/pointed to specific bylaws about why none of these resolutions would pass.

Why? This is unnecessary.

Essentially, his argument against the Resolutions is that they would require the Board to make advisory opinions, which would not carry any weight.

So what? Why is your corp. sec. doing this extra, unnecessary work?

What procedure/steps would need to be taken/followed in order to bring up these resolutions at the annual convention? i.e. obtain the floor, then what motion, how to bring it about, how to challenge the Secretary's findings when he is not the resolution committee director etc.

Answer: "No procedure other than the normal ones." - At the convention (a.) obtain the floor; (b.) make your motion (your resolutions)."

... how to challenge the Secretary's findings when he is not the resolution committee director etc.

• There are no findings to challenge. - You won't find such a thing in Robert's Rules of Order. You are chasing a chimera.

• The resolution committee director has nothing to do at the convention. You are adding unnecessary people and things. Just make the motion (to adopt the given resolution).

Why are you making it harder than it is?

What extra rules are you trying to follow (which you have not yet quoted)?

Why is your secretary doing all this extra opinionating?

Who is taking this secretary seriously? Are you?

[David A Foulkes]

The Bylaws simply say that Resolutions can be approved by a 2/3 vote at the convention. However, the Bylaws allow Robert's Rules to do the heavy lifting as it says that the rules are adopted as the rules of the organization. So essentially, regardless of what you think you know is in the bylaws of this organization, they say that the rules to follow are the RR's. I was just curious how the RR's would challenge a resolution committee's decision on a proposed resolution.

I love this! Just wanted to mention that.

Thing is, the bylaws overrule RONR, so those rules (bylaws) are the rules to follow. Absent anything in them referencing some topic, and not included in any other [possibily superior] governing documents, then RONR can get busy with the heavy lifting. So if the bylaw says "blah blah blah" and RONR says "yada yada" - well, "blah blah blah" it is.

[Guest Jonathan]

First, I apologize Kim for making it so much harder than it is. This, however, is my first experience with the rules and I am trying to find my way through them on my own (hence my presence here). Essentially what has happened is the Sec. has prepared the comments on the resolutions and they are essentially being adopted as the boards own. The stance the Sec. has taken, which is being adopted by the board, is that any decision the Executive Board would be able to make on the matter in the proposed resolutions would be simply advisory and that the board does not have the authority/power to enforce what the resolution is trying to accomplish.

I apologize for asking so many unnecessary questions Kim, and I hope you understand that I am very new to this and simply trying to help my organization fight what appears to be a couple of members on the board that want to do things their way regardless of what the rest of the members want accomplished. I hope you understand and can forgive my vexatious questions.

[Guest Jonathan]

David--

I understand that where the Bylaws are silent, RR takes over and where the Bylaws speak, the RR takes a back seat. Essentially, if I Wanted to present these two resolutions at the annual convention, what would be the proper steps to do so. Also, I believe the board might try to take the stance that since only advisory opinions are possible that the resolutions are out of order. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance for any advice.

[George Mervosh]

Pg. 614, Lines 3-8

"The Resolutions Committee has as its basic purpose the screening of all original main motions that have not been screened by another committee and that come--or are to come--before the convention"

I might have missed it, but I don't think a Resolutions Committee, as defined in RONR is what our original poster is complaining about.

[Trina]

David--

I understand that where the Bylaws are silent, RR takes over and where the Bylaws speak, the RR takes a back seat. Essentially, if I Wanted to present these two resolutions at the annual convention, what would be the proper steps to do so. Also, I believe the board might try to take the stance that since only advisory opinions are possible that the resolutions are out of order. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance for any advice.

If you are presenting the resolutions at the annual convention, I don't understand what the board has to do with it at that point. Presumably the annual convention is NOT a board meeting, so 'the board' won't even be there, and will have no authority to decide anything. It sounds as though it really is as simple as what Mr. Goldsworthy said:

"At the convention (a.) obtain the floor; (b.) make your motion (your resolutions)."

Since you are seeing it as much more complex, I wonder if we (i.e the people responding on this forum) are not yet clearly understanding the details of your question...

[Guest Jonathan]

I Guess that is my question, Trina. Where do I cite to in the rules that says, "it's not up to the Corp. Sec. or Board, but it should be put to the members of the organization." I know our bylaws state that the Board of directors have full authority to interpret the Bylaws, subject to being overruled by a resolution any construction or interpretation of the Bylaws by the Board.

It also says that a resolution passed by no less than 2/3 of the members can pass a resolution to overrule the establishment, construction, and interpretation of Policy and Procedure STatemnts of the organization.

This email that was sent out from the Corporate Secretary TO the Resolutions Committee Chair and the Members of the resolutions committee, one of whom I work for. Essentially, every resolution was reviewed and shut down by the Corp. Sec. Then she sent this email containing the arguments as to why those would not work.

So essentially what the Sec. is saying is, even though the members have ALL The power in the world to overturn our construction/interpretation/establishment of policies, bylaws etc., all they have to do is say it isn't a construction/interpretation/establishment and is just advisory, and therefore the members have no power to challenge b/c the board provide the relief the members are seeking.

Does that make a little more sense?

[Guest Jonathan]

b/c the board CANNOT* provide the relief the members are seeking. (essentially saying it's out of our hands, we don't have the power).

[Kim Goldsworthy]

... bylaws state that the Board of directors have full authority to interpret the Bylaws, subject to being overruled by a resolution any construction or interpretation of the Bylaws by the Board.

... [bylaws state] that a resolution passed by no less than 2/3 of the members can pass a resolution to overrule the establishment, construction, and interpretation of Policy and Procedure Statements of the organization.

In general:

When a secretary is spouting nonsense, or spouting illogical statements, or spouting rules contrary to one's bylaws, then the appropriate action is to disregard everything the secretary says, and follow the bylaws, in a sane and logical manner.

Officers can be wrong.

If your secretary is wrong, then don't obey your secretary's directions, and don't trust your secretary's judgment.

And, get a new secretary, while you are at it. - The one you got now is just not quite working out.

[Gary c Tesser]

Jonathan,

The reason STA said that the answers are in your bylaws is that, as Trina cogently said, and as Mr Goldsworthy excitedly declaimed, Robert's Rules does not require that a secretary gets to vet what the membership wants to do. And the Resolutions Committee has only whatever authority it is given in the bylaws or the convention's rules. (Keep reading: the authority to do that screening has to be set down as a rule.) RONR says nothing about one body's actions being "advisory" to another -- that will be in the bylaws, convention rules, or maybe some secretary's overactive imagination.

I confess I don't follow a lot of this. I suspect that's because much of what's going on is specific to Jonathan's organization, based on its bylaws, convention rules, customs, and some delusions of officers past and present. For example, this statement seems like pure nonsense to me (as, I suspect, Jonathan agrees): " since only advisory opinions are possible that the resolutions are out of order." And I can't make head or tail of the secretary's and/or board's reasoning in Jonathan's post of 1:35 PM. At a guess, I disagree with it.

[Josh Martin]

So essentially what the Sec. is saying is, even though the members have ALL The power in the world to overturn our construction/interpretation/establishment of policies, bylaws etc., all they have to do is say it isn't a construction/interpretation/establishment and is just advisory, and therefore the members have no power to challenge b/c the board provide the relief the members are seeking.

Does that make a little more sense?

The board only has the authority granted under the Bylaws. The Secretary may or may not be correct regarding the board's authority in this area. I don't know. I haven't read your Bylaws. But if the Secretary is correct that the board doesn't have the authority, then just have the general membership pass the motion itself at a meeting of the general membership. I'm not real clear on what the big problem is here. As for the process in making a resolution, you just get recognition and make a motion, unless your rules provide otherwise. A resolution committee does not automatically exist because your organization has adopted RONR - it must be created in your Bylaws or special rules of order, and you'd have to look there to see how much power it has.

Also be ready to appeal the decision of the chair in case he listens to your Secretary, although I'm not entirely clear on what grounds he would use to rule the resolutions out of order.