Voting procedure

[Trina_C]

I'm a member of a community group that appears to have a problem with our last motion that was passed. Is it possible to call another meeting and have a new vote or does the motion need to be rescinded and a new motion put forward. A lot of members weren't aware that this motion was going to take place at this meeting so they did not attend..now they're in an uproar and I want to find out if there is anything that can be done or is the motion to remain as it was even though the action, in reference to the motion, has not yet taken place...any help would be greatly appreciated so that we can put this issue to rest once and for all!!

Thanks!

[hmtcastle]

I'm a member of a community group that appears to have a problem with our last motion that was passed. Is it possible to call another meeting and have a new vote or does the motion need to be rescinded and a new motion put forward. A lot of members weren't aware that this motion was going to take place at this meeting so they did not attend..now they're in an uproar and I want to find out if there is anything that can be done or is the motion to remain as it was even though the action, in reference to the motion, has not yet taken place...any help would be greatly appreciated so that we can put this issue to rest once and for all!!

Thanks!

It's quite likely that the motion can be rescinded (or otherwise amended). You can wait until the next regular meeting or, if you bylaws provide for them, a special meeting could be called. Note that there is a higher voting threshold for rescinding a motion than for adopting it in the first place. But very little is carved in stone.

[Trina_C]

It's quite likely that the motion can be rescinded (or otherwise amended). You can wait until the next regular meeting or, if you bylaws provide for them, a special meeting could be called. Note that there is a higher voting threshold for rescinding a motion than for adopting it in the first place. But very little is carved in stone.

I believe they actually don't want to rescind the motion, but a large group wants a new vote...is that possible to do without rescinding the motion?

[David A Foulkes]

.... A lot of members weren't aware that this motion was going to take place at this meeting so they did not attend..now they're in an uproar ...

I wonder if there is any standing rule or bylaw within your organization that mandates all motions be noticed prior to the meeting at which they will be taken up? In a general sense, during the New Business portion of the meeting, motions may be made that no one but perhaps the maker was aware were going to come up, and that's not a violation of any general procedural rule. That's what New Business is about. It comes down to the importance of attendance at meetings.

Now, if this motion being made in some manner violated the rights of absentees, there may be something to look into there. But I would say otherwise, if you want to have "voice", go to the meetings. That's (at the very least implicitly) a duty of membership. Which is not to say bad decisions can't be made - and reversed - through proper procedures.

[Trina_C]

I wonder if there is any standing rule or bylaw within your organization that mandates all motions be noticed prior to the meeting at which they will be taken up? In a general sense, during the New Business portion of the meeting, motions may be made that no one but perhaps the maker was aware were going to come up, and that's not a violation of any general procedural rule. That's what New Business is about. It comes down to the importance of attendance at meetings.

Now, if this motion being made in some manner violated the rights of absentees, there may be something to look into there. But I would say otherwise, if you want to have "voice", go to the meetings. That's (at the very least implicitly) a duty of membership. Which is not to say bad decisions can't be made - and reversed - through proper procedures.

I agree, those people should have attended the meeting, but now they're saying that if they knew this item would have been on the table, they would have made a point to attend. I'm just trying to see both sides of the issue and trying to be fair before this tears the community apart. They're all in agreement to follow Robert's rules, whether the outcome goes one way or another, I just find alot of these rules vague, and there's little loopholes here and there. I was reading up on it today and I thought maybe a new vote could take place because the motion has not been put into action yet, but now I'm not sure, so I need more expertise on this issue..and basically someone to say, "yes we can have a revote based on the rules" or "no we can't have a revote based on the rules".

[hmtcastle]

I believe they actually don't want to rescind the motion, but a large group wants a new vote...is that possible to do without rescinding the motion?

You can't "re-vote" on the same motion.

But you can vote on a motion to rescind the original motion or you can vote on a motion to amend (change) the original motion. If previous notice is given (of the motion to rescind or amend), then a majority vote is all you'll need.

[David A Foulkes]

I agree, those people should have attended the meeting, but now they're saying that if they knew this item would have been on the table, they would have made a point to attend. I'm just trying to see both sides of the issue and trying to be fair before this tears the community apart. They're all in agreement to follow Robert's rules, whether the outcome goes one way or another, I just find alot of these rules vague, and there's little loopholes here and there. I was reading up on it today and I thought maybe a new vote could take place because the motion has not been put into action yet, but now I'm not sure, so I need more expertise on this issue..and basically someone to say, "yes we can have a revote based on the rules" or "no we can't have a revote based on the rules".

Take a look at Section 35, page 293, for the motion to Rescind;Amend Something Previously Adopted. If you don't have RONR, it might be worth a trip to the book store. Also look for Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised - In Brief. A great summer-time read and that will set the foundation for the big book.

[Trina_C]

You can't "re-vote" on the same motion.

But you can vote on a motion to rescind the original motion or you can vote on a motion to amend (change) the original motion. If previous notice is given (of the motion to rescind or amend), then a majority vote is all you'll need.

Actually it was a special meeting that was called in the first place and this motion was put forth, people were not aware of it beforehand and it would be a special meeting that would need to be called again to rescind the original motion because time is of an issue. When you say previous notice is give, what exactly do you mean by that..that everyone is aware of the vote beforehand? (BTW I do really appreciate this help...our meetings are kind of a mish mash of robert's rules and well just pandamonium..but for this issue they are insisting on following robert's rules for fairness)

[hmtcastle]

Actually it was a special meeting that was called in the first place and this motion was put forth, people were not aware of it beforehand and it would be a special meeting that would need to be called again to rescind the original motion because time is of an issue. When you say previous notice is give, what exactly do you mean by that..that everyone is aware of the vote beforehand?

Assuming special meetings are authorized by your bylaws, the "call" (the notice) of the special meeting should include the proposed motion (to rescind or amend).

But, with regards to the first special meeting (at which the controversial motion was adopted), you say, "people were not aware of it beforehand". That should not be possible since special (or "called") meetings require notice be sent to all members. Otherwise, any business conducted would be null and void.

[David A Foulkes]

Actually it was a special meeting that was called in the first place and this motion was put forth, people were not aware of it beforehand and it would be a special meeting that would need to be called again to rescind the original motion because time is of an issue. When you say previous notice is give, what exactly do you mean by that..that everyone is aware of the vote beforehand? (BTW I do really appreciate this help...our meetings are kind of a mish mash of robert's rules and well just pandamonium..but for this issue they are insisting on following robert's rules for fairness)

Assuming your bylaws allow for special meetings (and if they don't, you can't have them) then the announcement of the special meeting (notice) should have included the purpose (what motions were going to be decided, and only those mentioned in the call of the meeting can be handled) AND that notice should have been mailed (or delivered) to ALL members, so that ALL members would know what was business was before the assembly. If such notice was not properly handled, or if you aren't allowed to have special meetings, then it may well be that the action is null and void anyway.

[Trina_C]

Assuming special meetings are authorized by your bylaws, the "call" (the notice) of the special meeting should include the proposed motion (to rescind or amend).

But, with regards to the first special meeting (at which the controversial motion was adopted), you say, "people were not aware of it beforehand". That should not be possible since special (or "called") meetings require notice be sent to all members. Otherwise, any business conducted would be null and void.

People were not aware of it beforehand because it went out in a flyer with the mail...however, being a small community, it wasn't brought to the post office but instead was asked as a favour to the mail delivery person (I know, I know, but trust me, things are done a little differently here sometimes). Well what ended up happening, if a person was receiving mail that day, they received the flyer, if not..no flyer. Some, including myself only received the flyer the day of the meeting, heck some haven't received it yet! Is this grounds for any business conducted being null and void?

[Trina_C]

Assuming your bylaws allow for special meetings (and if they don't, you can't have them) then the announcement of the special meeting (notice) should have included the purpose (what motions were going to be decided, and only those mentioned in the call of the meeting can be handled) AND that notice should have been mailed (or delivered) to ALL members, so that ALL members would know what was business was before the assembly. If such notice was not properly handled, or if you aren't allowed to have special meetings, then it may well be that the action is null and void anyway.

Is there an adequate time frame that the notice must go out by? I'm assuming receiving notice that day wouldn't count?

[David A Foulkes]

Is there an adequate time frame that the notice must go out by? I'm assuming receiving notice that day wouldn't count?

The threshold of "adequate time frame" needs to be in the bylaw that authorizes special meetings, and it should be adequate enough so that all members would receive it ahead of time enough to make plans to be at the meeting.

Do you have a bylaw that authorizes special meetings? And if so, does that bylaw include the required time of notice?

[hmtcastle]

Well what ended up happening, if a person was receiving mail that day, they received the flyer, if not..no flyer. Some, including myself only received the flyer the day of the meeting, heck some haven't received it yet! Is this grounds for any business conducted being null and void?

It's up to the members of your organization to determine if the notice was adequate. RONR says that it "must be mailed to all members a reasonable number of days in advance" (p. 89).

[Trina_C]

The threshold of "adequate time frame" needs to be in the bylaw that authorizes special meetings, and it should be adequate enough so that all members would receive it ahead of time enough to make plans to be at the meeting.

Do you have a bylaw that authorizes special meetings? And if so, does that bylaw include the required time of notice?

I'm actually in the process or getting my copy of the bylaws back, so I should know this later today. Unfortunately the executive of this committee is all new (the former ones ruled for 30 years and it was declared defunct. last summer). Now everyone is working on a learning curve.

[Trina_C]

It's up to the members of your organization to determine if the notice was adequate. RONR says that it "must be mailed to all members a reasonable number of days in advance" (p. 89).

To say that this is a mess is an understatement. I also realized that night that they may have had people voting who weren't actually members of this committee. The notice went out to everyone in the community so people assumed this was a community vote when it shouldn't have been. According to our bylaws in order to be a member you have to pay your membership dues, which not every community member did, therefore, they do not get a vote. But again, people misunderstood this and thought it was a community vote, and until I mentioned it last night, the executive didn't realize either that only members could vote. Hmmmmm I think it's time to move! haha