Ricky Posted July 13, 2010 at 08:35 PM Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 at 08:35 PM At our upcoming conference we have 5 proposed ByLaw changes for a dues increase. Can the President decide in which order the changes are presented and what happens if the third proposed ByLaw is approved, do we continue to vote on the remaining two proposed changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted July 13, 2010 at 09:14 PM Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 at 09:14 PM At our upcoming conference we have 5 proposed ByLaw changes for a dues increase. Can the President decide in which order the changes are presented and what happens if the third proposed ByLaw is approved, do we continue to vote on the remaining two proposed changes?Yes, the President should arrange the proposals in a logical order (subject to the assembly's approval), and you must vote on all proposed changes. If one change is adopted, it may be superseded if later proposals are adopted. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 575, line 20 - pg. 576, line 11) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted July 13, 2010 at 10:57 PM Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 at 10:57 PM At our upcoming conference we have 5 proposed ByLaw changes for a dues increase. Can the President decide in which order the changes are presented and what happens if the third proposed ByLaw is approved, do we continue to vote on the remaining two proposed changes?Why would you not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted July 14, 2010 at 12:58 PM Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 at 12:58 PM Why would you not?They would not because the matter has already been decided. This is generally out of order: considering bylaw amendments is a special case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted July 14, 2010 at 01:00 PM Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 at 01:00 PM They should have given previous notice of the motion with a blank in it, or better yet, follow RONR's recommendation and don't put dues amounts in the bylaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted July 14, 2010 at 03:44 PM Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 at 03:44 PM They would not because the matter has already been decided. This is generally out of order: considering bylaw amendments is a special case.It's me, I know, it always is. But indulge me if you would....First, I'm unclear if there is one bylaw covering dues (or five bylaws covering dues that each are up for amendment), and five varying amendments are offered, but I'm going with that for now. Apparently each of the five differs by degrees, I'm guessing by the amount of the increase. Perhaps you read it differently, so I'm open to your idea.As I read your reply, upon adopting the third amendment, the fourth and fifth are rendered moot, I'm guessing because amendment #1 and #2 were defeated, and thus #3 getting the approval vote would certainly indicate there would not be enough votes for #4 and #5, so why bother.This seems to contradict Josh Martin's post of yesterday:Yes, the President should arrange the proposals in a logical order (subject to the assembly's approval), and you must vote on all proposed changes. If one change is adopted, it may be superseded if later proposals are adopted. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 575, line 20 - pg. 576, line 11) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted July 14, 2010 at 04:32 PM Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 at 04:32 PM It's me, I know, it always is. But indulge me if you would....First, I'm unclear if there is one bylaw covering dues (or five bylaws covering dues that each are up for amendment), and five varying amendments are offered, but I'm going with that for now. Apparently each of the five differs by degrees, I'm guessing by the amount of the increase. Perhaps you read it differently, so I'm open to your idea.As I read your reply, upon adopting the third amendment, the fourth and fifth are rendered moot, I'm guessing because amendment #1 and #2 were defeated, and thus #3 getting the approval vote would certainly indicate there would not be enough votes for #4 and #5, so why bother.Mr. Tesser is not suggesting they would be moot, he is explaining why the poster thought they would not be considered. In the general case, once a motion is decided, another conflicting motion would not be in order. Bylaw amendments are an exception to the usual case, as each proposal amends the Bylaws in their current form.Now, if the organization had followed Mr. Mervosh's advice, which I agree with, then the assembly could have used the procedure of filling blanks instead. In such a case, once one amount was adopted the others would not be considered. You would start with the one least likely to be adopted (most likely, the highest amount), and then work your way down. Thus, you find the highest amount of dues a majority will agree to. Since they're being considered as separate amendments instead, all must be considered. I'd probably recommend going the opposite route then - start with the lowest and work your way up, so the assembly is voting on incremental increases, and thus the last amendment adopted is given effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Rempel Posted July 14, 2010 at 10:28 PM Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 at 10:28 PM They should have given previous notice of the motion with a blank in it, or better yet, follow RONR's recommendation and don't put dues amounts in the bylawsBut, pp.554 and 566 DO include dues in bylaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted July 15, 2010 at 12:39 AM Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 at 12:39 AM But, pp.554 and 566 DO include dues in bylaws.Holy heck, I made up a rule it seems. That's not the first time Let's go with the notice containing a blank and leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted July 15, 2010 at 08:08 AM Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 at 08:08 AM Mr. Tesser is not suggesting they would be moot, he is explaining why the poster thought they would not be considered. In the general case, once a motion is decided, another conflicting motion would not be in order. Bylaw amendments are an exception to the usual case, as each proposal amends the Bylaws in their current form.Now, if the organization had followed Mr. Mervosh's advice, which I agree with, then the assembly could have used the procedure of filling blanks instead. In such a case, once one amount was adopted the others would not be considered. You would start with the one least likely to be adopted (most likely, the highest amount), and then work your way down. Thus, you find the highest amount of dues a majority will agree to. Since they're being considered as separate amendments instead, all must be considered. I'd probably recommend going the opposite route then - start with the lowest and work your way up, so the assembly is voting on incremental increases, and thus the last amendment adopted is given effect.I'm 58 years old, why dammit to I need Josh Martin to come cleaning up after me all the time to explain what I mean??!?[Edit for a nuance] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted July 15, 2010 at 11:50 PM Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 at 11:50 PM I'm 58 years old, why dammit to I need Josh Martin to come cleaning up after me all the time to explain what I mean??!?[Edit for a nuance]At least I got it right this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.