Discussion Item

[Guest Jonathan Z]

There is a possibility at an upcoming meeting that a resolution I want to pass is out of order. Obviously, if out of order, then it won't be debated. However, it is a very important issue for our group. Is there a way to make it a "discussion item" or essentially to bring it before the assembly to discuss it or let members make their feelings known about it. The resolution deals with whether ultimate authority can rest in the membership as opposed to the board of directors.

Essentially I just want to be able to make a motion that allows for an open dialog between the members and board so that if it IS out of order, at least when can start discussing it for the next annual convention. Anyone have any ideas?

[George Mervosh]

Why not offer a proposed bylaw amendment (via whatever process is now spelled out in your bylaws for their amendment)? The bylaws is where the authority between the members and Board should be crystal clear. The default is, unless the authority is exclusively given to the Board in the bylaws, the members have the last word.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

I just want to be able to make a motion that allows for an open dialog between the members and board so that if it IS out of order, at least when can start discussing it for the next annual convention. Anyone have any ideas?

Whenever you want to discuss something at length, WITHOUT A MOTION to FIRST accompany this discussion, then the #1 parliamentary tool is, "Refer [X] to a committee."

• A committee has time. There is no adjournment deadline, and no long list of business items awaiting handling.

• Everybody who wants to talk about [X] can come. Those who think [X] is a waste of time can stay home. Everybody wins. Nobody's time is wasted.

• A committee can come up with a recommendation (an adoptable motion) after all this discussion. So the committee itself has a great chance to be fruitful.

[Josh Martin]

There is a possibility at an upcoming meeting that a resolution I want to pass is out of order. Obviously, if out of order, then it won't be debated. However, it is a very important issue for our group. Is there a way to make it a "discussion item" or essentially to bring it before the assembly to discuss it or let members make their feelings known about it. The resolution deals with whether ultimate authority can rest in the membership as opposed to the board of directors.

Essentially I just want to be able to make a motion that allows for an open dialog between the members and board so that if it IS out of order, at least when can start discussing it for the next annual convention. Anyone have any ideas?

What exactly is the intent of your resolution? If you intend to actually clarify so that the members have the ultimate authority, this would require an amendment to the Bylaws. An amendment to the Bylaws is always in order unless it conflicts with a higher-level document (provided the membership has the authority to amend the Bylaws, which it should).

If the intent is just to "let members make their feelings known about it," then you can pass a "sense of the assembly" resolution. This would mean that the general membership is expressing an opinion, nothing more. There's no reason such a motion would be out of order.

I don't see any need for this "open dialog" (although if you do choose to go that route, I would follow Mr. Goldsworthy's suggestion). One of those two motions should be in order and meet your intended purpose.

[Guest Jonathan Z]

Josh--

Where would I find the "sense of the assembly" resolution in RONR?

[Guest Jonathan Z]

I'm not familiar with the sense of assembly resolution. Where would I find it in RONR?

[Josh Martin]

I'm not familiar with the sense of assembly resolution. Where would I find it in RONR?

I don't believe the term is actually used in RONR. It's a term many on this forum use to describe a resolution that expresses the opinion of the assembly, nothing more. The resolution in RONR, 10th ed., pg. 95, line 20 - pg. 96, line 1 is an example of such a resolution. As the example suggests, they more commonly relate to external issues, but there is no reason it could not be used for an internal issue as well.

[Gary c Tesser]

I don't believe the term is actually used in RONR. It's a term many on this forum use to describe a resolution that expresses the opinion of the assembly, nothing more. The resolution in RONR, 10th ed., pg. 95, line 20 - pg. 96, line 1 is an example of such a resolution. As the example suggests, they more commonly relate to external issues, but there is no reason it could not be used for an internal issue as well.

And bear firmly in mind that it's just plain a main motion. No bells and whistles required.

[Guest Jonathan Z]

As far as resolutions go, they must be submitted in advance of the annual convention, so I'm wondering what the best format, or the best way to make that motion would be?

[Guest Jonathan Z]

Would it be akin to making an Advisory Resolution?

[Josh Martin]

As far as resolutions go, they must be submitted in advance of the annual convention, so I'm wondering what the best format, or the best way to make that motion would be?

As Mr. Tesser suggests, there doesn't need to be anything special in the formatting of the motion.

Would it be akin to making an Advisory Resolution?

That sounds like your own term for "sense of the assembly" resolution, in the sense that it would be "advisory" to some other body. So sure, if that's what makes sense to you, go with that.

[Guest Jonathan Z]

Well according to bylaws, the resolutions must be submitted 45 days before the convention. So I'm afraid it would be out of order.

[J. J.]

You could:

1. Take a recess and discuss the issue, technically, outside of the meeting.

2. Suspend the rules to permit discussion of a subject without a motion or vote. I really cannot come up with a problem with that.

[Guest Jonathan Z]

J.J.

As far as suspending the rules to permit a discussion of a subject without a motion/vote, that is EXACTLY what I Was looking for. IS there any authority from RONR about it or is there a specific motion I would want to make in conjunction with the suspension of the rules, as I know it allows you to make another motion at the same time.

If you could point me in the right direction in RONR I would appreciate it.

[Trina]

...

IS there any authority from RONR about it or is there a specific motion I would want to make in conjunction with the suspension of the rules, as I know it allows you to make another motion at the same time.

If you could point me in the right direction in RONR I would appreciate it.

The beauty of the motion to suspend the rules (described on RONR pp. 252-258) is that you do not need to enumerate the rules that are to be suspended; instead, you state the desired object of the suspension (i.e. what you are trying to accomplish by suspending the rules).

> "I move that the rules be suspended [or "to suspend the rules"] which interfere with ... [stating the object of the suspension]." (Second.) < (example language on RONR p. 257)

Your motion would have to made when no question is pending (assuming it is not being made for a purpose directly connected with another motion). If it is made in connection with another motion, then it would be in order while that other question is pending, but not while someone else has the floor.

[Josh Martin]

Well according to bylaws, the resolutions must be submitted 45 days before the convention. So I'm afraid it would be out of order.

Oh, that's why it's out of order. You should have said that earlier. And you can stop hedging - this is pretty clear cut. If it's already less than 45 days before the convention, yes, it would certainly be out of order.

Yeah, go with what J. J. said, then.