Meeting and Minutes

[grammaconnie]

During an Executive Board meeting, members will volunteer to complete actions for the next meeting,e.g., “I will get three bids for street cleaning for the next meeting”. “I will bring a proposal for landscaping two new flower beds.”

How are these documented in the minutes as they are not actions that the board has taken during the meeting?

And how and where are they put on the agenda for the next meeting: unfinished business, open item, etc.?

[Kim Goldsworthy]

During an Executive Board meeting, members will volunteer to complete actions for the next meeting, e.g., “I will get three bids for street cleaning for the next meeting”. “I will bring a proposal for landscaping two new flower beds.”

How are these documented in the minutes as they are not actions that the board has taken during the meeting?

And how and where are they put on the agenda for the next meeting: unfinished business, open item, etc.?

I know what kind of loose give-and-take you are referring to, since it is often the case that instead of a board taking a vote, or instead of the general membership taking a vote, individuals step up and take initiative to solve problems or to complete projects spontaneously, even before discussion on a topic is over.

I don't think it would wise to DISCOURAGE "enthusiasm" and "initiative" and "problem solving ability."

Since all this "actionless action" is done without parliamentary procedure, The Book does not contain a solution. Sorry about that.

As a result, suggestions (include my suggestions) are probably going to be pragmatic, rather than via cited pages of RONR Tenth Edition 2000.

*****

Suggestion:

Assuming there is no challenge or negative gainsaying (which might be logically concluded when the chair changes the subject, without objection):

• Write into the minutes that "Regarding Topic T, Mr. Smith volunteered to do Task X."

I would treat Mr. Smith's initiative as if it were "a committee of one."

*****

To repeat my caution:

Since there is no vote on record, I cannot promise that my suggestion will work, or will fit YOUR circumstance, or fit YOUR organizational style.

I don't have a monopoly on "What to do with a Good Idea which is never turned into a vote-able motion."

[joneuman]

I am the recording secretary for our organization this year and I have had this come up as well. When we were doing committee chair appointments, there were a few cases were individuals stated they would check with so-and-so to see if they were willing to hold such-and-such a position. I did record this in the minutes (just in a separate paragraph) as we often have situations where at a later time people will not remember they said they would do something. I do not put this on the agenda for the next meeting, however, as it really isn't unfinished business, but I do keep a list in my binder of "open" items and I add these types of things to that. So on my list under committee chairs I have the details of who said they'd check with whom so that the next time committee chairs are being discussed, I can inquire as to the status.

[Josh Martin]

How are these documented in the minutes as they are not actions that the board has taken during the meeting?

They aren't documented in the minutes.

And how and where are they put on the agenda for the next meeting: unfinished business, open item, etc.?

If a motion arises from one of these topics it would be made during New Business. If no motion arises, I suppose the appropriate time would be during Comments for the Good of the Order/Open Forum if you have such a heading.

[Trina]

How are these documented in the minutes as they are not actions that the board has taken during the meeting?

They aren't documented in the minutes.

Couldn't the assembly choose to include such information in its minutes, though -- by custom, or preferably by establishing a rule on what its minutes should contain?

In an informal group, which may depart from the motion-debate-vote paradigm, the line between board actions and individual initiative gets a lot blurrier. The groups I belong to are like this, in that discussion often precedes formal motions, and on issues where everyone is in agreement, no formal motion may be made at all. For example, dates need to be set for organization events during the coming year (one of the responsibilities of the board), everyone pulls out relevant calendars to count days, and note conflicts, and 15 minutes of fairly amicable discussion follows as the various dates are nailed down. Venue availability is uncertain for two of the dates, and board member Jane volunteers to check availability. At the end, the board members certainly believe they have made decisions for the organization (and they have), and Jane's offer to carry out a necessary sub-task is part of the decisions that were made.

To say that such decisions have no place in the minutes is probably too rigid. The minutes 'should contain mainly a record of what was done at the meeting, not what was said by the members.' (RONR p. 451 ll. 26-28)

The cited text says 'done at the meeting,' not just 'done by voting on motions at the meeting.' Who is to judge what was 'done' -- presumably the assembly itself is the judge of that?

In any case, regardless of what 'done' means in a technical sense, I'll repeat my initial suggestion that the assembly could choose to include such information in its minutes.

[Dan Honemann]

Couldn't the assembly choose to include such information in its minutes, though -- by custom, or preferably by establishing a rule on what its minutes should contain?

In an informal group, which may depart from the motion-debate-vote paradigm, the line between board actions and individual initiative gets a lot blurrier. The groups I belong to are like this, in that discussion often precedes formal motions, and on issues where everyone is in agreement, no formal motion may be made at all. For example, dates need to be set for organization events during the coming year (one of the responsibilities of the board), everyone pulls out relevant calendars to count days, and note conflicts, and 15 minutes of fairly amicable discussion follows as the various dates are nailed down. Venue availability is uncertain for two of the dates, and board member Jane volunteers to check availability. At the end, the board members certainly believe they have made decisions for the organization (and they have), and Jane's offer to carry out a necessary sub-task is part of the decisions that were made.

To say that such decisions have no place in the minutes is probably too rigid. The minutes 'should contain mainly a record of what was done at the meeting, not what was said by the members.' (RONR p. 451 ll. 26-28)

The cited text says 'done at the meeting,' not just 'done by voting on motions at the meeting.' Who is to judge what was 'done' -- presumably the assembly itself is the judge of that?

In any case, regardless of what 'done' means in a technical sense, I'll repeat my initial suggestion that the assembly could choose to include such information in its minutes.

Yes, but the purpose of this forum is to explain how things should be done in accordance with the rules, not the limitless ways in which the rules may be either changed or ignored.

[Josh Martin]

In an informal group, which may depart from the motion-debate-vote paradigm, the line between board actions and individual initiative gets a lot blurrier. The groups I belong to are like this, in that discussion often precedes formal motions, and on issues where everyone is in agreement, no formal motion may be made at all. For example, dates need to be set for organization events during the coming year (one of the responsibilities of the board), everyone pulls out relevant calendars to count days, and note conflicts, and 15 minutes of fairly amicable discussion follows as the various dates are nailed down. Venue availability is uncertain for two of the dates, and board member Jane volunteers to check availability. At the end, the board members certainly believe they have made decisions for the organization (and they have), and Jane's offer to carry out a necessary sub-task is part of the decisions that were made.

To say that such decisions have no place in the minutes is probably too rigid. The minutes 'should contain mainly a record of what was done at the meeting, not what was said by the members.' (RONR p. 451 ll. 26-28)

I don't see any suggestion in the original post that the assembly made a decision, even by unanimous consent.

[Trina]

I don't see any suggestion in the original post that the assembly made a decision, even by unanimous consent.

You may well be right.

> members will volunteer to complete actions for the next meeting <

suggested to me that people were volunteering to take actions in the context of board decisions or responsibilities, rather than jumping up to make a purely private announcement of a planned action.

However, it's certainly true that busybee is the only one who knows what's really happening at the meetings in question.

[Trina]

Yes, but the purpose of this forum is to explain how things should be done in accordance with the rules, not the limitless ways in which the rules may be either changed or ignored.

But RONR does address ways in which rules may be properly changed. What I was mainly trying to get at is that the assembly CAN take proper steps to include additional information in the minutes, should the assembly choose to do so.

[gtdsecretary]

Since it appears that minutes, a la RONR, are not a tool for maintaining strategic direction or accountability, how are today's organizations managing their work? I am a recording secretary and while I'd be willing to JUST record meeting attendance and motions and votes, that would leave the bulk of the real actions and action items out. Should I propose the creation of a recorder for appointments and committee charges and action items? How are other groups working this? Has it worked to help keep projects and people on track, or not?

So far my efforts to follow Roberts' more rigorously have been met with confusion and reluctance from the ED and other board members.

[Dan Honemann]

Since it appears that minutes, a la RONR, are not a tool for maintaining strategic direction or accountability, how are today's organizations managing their work? I am a recording secretary and while I'd be willing to JUST record meeting attendance and motions and votes, that would leave the bulk of the real actions and action items out. Should I propose the creation of a recorder for appointments and committee charges and action items? How are other groups working this? Has it worked to help keep projects and people on track, or not?

So far my efforts to follow Roberts' more rigorously have been met with confusion and reluctance from the ED and other board members.

I'm afraid that you do not yet understand what RONR says about what is to be included in the minutes.

Perhaps you had better read it again (if not for the first time).

[Rob Elsman]

I'm afraid that you do not yet understand what RONR says about what is to be included in the minutes.

Perhaps you had better read it again (if not for the first time).

...and, this time, make sure you read the 10th edition.

[gtdsecretary]

...and, this time, make sure you read the 10th edition.

"Thanks" a heap

[Josh Martin]

You may well be right.

> members will volunteer to complete actions for the next meeting <

suggested to me that people were volunteering to take actions in the context of board decisions or responsibilities, rather than jumping up to make a purely private announcement of a planned action.

However, it's certainly true that busybee is the only one who knows what's really happening at the meetings in question.

Since the things the volunteers are doing involve bringing forth "bids" and "proposals," it appears to me that the members have simply offered to bring forth items for action by the board at a future board meeting. I agree, however, that only the original poster knows for sure what happened.

Certainly if the board did choose to take an action by unanimous consent, that should be recorded in the minutes.

Since it appears that minutes, a la RONR, are not a tool for maintaining strategic direction or accountability, how are today's organizations managing their work? I am a recording secretary and while I'd be willing to JUST record meeting attendance and motions and votes, that would leave the bulk of the real actions and action items out. Should I propose the creation of a recorder for appointments and committee charges and action items? How are other groups working this? Has it worked to help keep projects and people on track, or not?

So far my efforts to follow Roberts' more rigorously have been met with confusion and reluctance from the ED and other board members.

Meeting attendance is not recorded in the minutes. Any actions taken by the board should be recorded, even if those actions are decided upon by unanimous consent rather than by a formal motion, and this should include committee charges, action items, and appointments by the board. Appointments by the chair during a meeting are also included in the minutes. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 456, lines 6-7)

[Guest Victor]

During an Executive Board meeting, members will volunteer to complete actions for the next meeting,e.g., “I will get three bids for street cleaning for the next meeting”. “I will bring a proposal for landscaping two new flower beds.”

How are these documented in the minutes as they are not actions that the board has taken during the meeting?

And how and where are they put on the agenda for the next meeting: unfinished business, open item, etc.?

[/quote

If you're expecting people to return with bids and proposals, and obviously no motion or action has been taken, it ought to be new business.

The person bringing the bids ought to open with, "Mr. Chairman, I move the consideration of the following bids...", now formalizing the business at hand.

If your agenda are distributed prior to the meeting date, the note that these items are on the agenda ought to remind the volunteers [in a quiet and sincere way] they have tasks to do.

Consider that people may volunteer or ask to bring an item to the attention of the board at any time, but until it is formalized, there's no need for a record. Now if the volunteer says, "I'll present the bids", and the chair respondds, "So ordered", that formalized the action and it would be recorded.

[SaintCad]

I am a secretary as well. Next meeting will be the first minutes I turn in and we will see what happens. I would argue that in such informal settings, such information as the OP mentions should be included in the minutes. Why? By RONR, minutes are "[t]he record of the proceedings of a deliberative assembly". and in many informal assemblies, they proceed thusly:

"Hey great idea. I'll go and see how much the equipment will cost." which from a pedantic view, I would take as the equivalent as

"Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that an ad-hoc committee be formed with one member and myself as the Chair to investigate the pricing of the equipment."

"The Chair hears no objection, the motion passes."

Just try that second way at the next meeting and see how far that gets you :-P

But why should it be included in the minutes at all? Suppose the next meeting, a member complains, "Why did HE get to do the pricing. I have a cousin that can get it half-price." The minutes would show that no objection was made to the offer.

[Guest Sara]

During an Executive Board meeting, members will volunteer to complete actions for the next meeting,e.g., “I will get three bids for street cleaning for the next meeting”. “I will bring a proposal for landscaping two new flower beds.”

How are these documented in the minutes as they are not actions that the board has taken during the meeting?

And how and where are they put on the agenda for the next meeting: unfinished business, open item, etc.?

[/quote

If you're expecting people to return with bids and proposals, and obviously no motion or action has been taken, it ought to be new business.

The person bringing the bids ought to open with, "Mr. Chairman, I move the consideration of the following bids...", now formalizing the business at hand.

If your agenda are distributed prior to the meeting date, the note that these items are on the agenda ought to remind the volunteers [in a quiet and sincere way] they have tasks to do.

Consider that people may volunteer or ask to bring an item to the attention of the board at any time, but until it is formalized, there's no need for a record. Now if the volunteer says, "I'll present the bids", and the chair respondds, "So ordered", that formalized the action and it would be recorded.

[Guest Sara]

I agree with the "guest" comment to appropriately include the "volunteer offer" in the meeting minutes, have the presiding officer, "then it is generally agreed that Tom will research the matter and report back at the next meeting with an estimate of the work". If there is no objection, the "unanimous consent" becomes an "action" to be recorded in the minutes.