motions

[Guest clerk]

A motion was made. At the exact same moment, a soft spoken member seconded it and another member loudly objected. The objector was heard, the supporter not. Discussion began, no one caught the error. The recording secretary heard the event and caught the nuances. However, how does she accurately record the minutes in regard to the motion that wasn't? Thank you.

[hmtcastle]

A motion was made. At the exact same moment, a soft spoken member seconded it and another member loudly objected. The objector was heard, the supporter not. Discussion began, no one caught the error. The recording secretary heard the event and caught the nuances. However, how does she accurately record the minutes in regard to the motion that wasn't? Thank you.

Ignore the objector. Record that the motion was made (and by whom) and record the disposition of the motion (e.g. adopted or lost). It's that simple.

[Dan Honemann]

A motion was made. At the exact same moment, a soft spoken member seconded it and another member loudly objected. The objector was heard, the supporter not. Discussion began, no one caught the error. The recording secretary heard the event and caught the nuances. However, how does she accurately record the minutes in regard to the motion that wasn't? Thank you.

Discussion began on what?

What error?

What nuances?

[David A Foulkes]

A motion was made. At the exact same moment, a soft spoken member seconded it and another member loudly objected. The objector was heard, the supporter not. Discussion began, no one caught the error. The recording secretary heard the event and caught the nuances. However, how does she accurately record the minutes in regard to the motion that wasn't? Thank you.

I suspect these are the highlights of the event. That said, once "debate" (not so much discussion) begins, the lack of a second is immaterial. However, by The Book, after 1) motion and 2) second comes 3) the Chair states the question, letting the assembly know exactly what they will be debating and voting on and putting the question in its possession. Until the Chair states the question, any debate is out of order. (p. 38 ll. 25-26)

So, did the Chair "state the question" or did everyone just start babbling? Was a vote taken in the end?

[Kim Goldsworthy]

A motion was made. At the exact same moment, a soft spoken member seconded it and another member loudly objected. The objector was heard, the supporter not. Discussion began, no one caught the error. The recording secretary heard the event and caught the nuances. However, how does she accurately record the minutes in regard to the motion that wasn't? Thank you.

"... the motion that wasn't"?

If there was no motion, (or if the net effect was that there was no motion) then I'd first assume that there is nothing to record.

Anything beyond that will depend on what happened (which no one knows).

[Guest clerk]

I suspect these are the highlights of the event. That said, once "debate" (not so much discussion) begins, the lack of a second is immaterial. However, by The Book, after 1) motion and 2) second comes 3) the Chair states the question, letting the assembly know exactly what they will be debating and voting on and putting the question in its possession. Until the Chair states the question, any debate is out of order. (p. 38 ll. 25-26)

So, did the Chair "state the question" or did everyone just start babbling? Was a vote taken in the end?

babbling, no vote

[hmtcastle]

A motion was made . . . Discussion began.

[Tim Wynn]

A motion was made.

That seems clear. This motion should be included in the minutes, unless it is withdrawn.

At the exact same moment, a soft spoken member seconded it

Let's assume it was at least slightly after the motion was made. :-)

and another member loudly objected.

From a parliamentary standpoint, it can be assumed this is an Objection to the Consideration of the Question, in which case the chair should have taken a vote on the question, "shall the question be considered?" It requires two thirds in the negative to prevent the motion from coming before the assembly. See RONR(10th ed.), p. 258.

The objector was heard, the supporter not.

If handled properly, after the vote on the Objection to the Consideration to the Question, a second is immaterial. The result of the vote will clearly indicate the assembly desire concerning the consideration of the question.

A seconder is not necessarily a supporter of the motion -- just someone who concurs that it should be placed before the assembly.

Discussion began,

Debate should follow a motion being stated by the chair. If debate begins, it's too late for the objection or the second to be of any consequence.

no one caught the error.

Apparently someone did. I'm not sure what error you're talking about, so let's take a look at the possibilities.

1) The chair doesn't hear the second and doesn't state the question:

Any member can raise a point of order indicating that the chair should state the question because it was moved and seconded. It would also be proper and possibly simpler for any member to just second the motion (a little louder), if only on the grounds that he knows two members want it to come before the assembly.

2) The chair states the question on a motion that had been objected to:

Before debate has begun on the question, a member can and should raise a point of order indicating that the question was objected to.

The recording secretary heard the event and caught the nuances. However, how does she accurately record the minutes in regard to the motion that wasn't? Thank you.

If a motion was made, it is recorded, whether it receives a second or not.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

Babbling, no vote.

Okay.

All things being equal, if there was nothing coherent, then you'd be best off by treating the whole affair as if the motion were withdrawn.

Withdrawn motions are not recorded in the minutes, according to Robert's Rules of Order.

That solves two problems with one stroke.

Anything else will require lines of demarcation to be drawn, e.g.:

• If it is treated a a main motion . . .

• If it is treated as an Objection To Consideration of a Question . . .

. . . then you've got more to write into your minutes. - More "babbling" on an incoherent subject, which was never even brought to a definitive vote, affirmative/negative.

Good luck with your crystal ball on that project, if you choose to go that route.