Can the board call to adjourn a membership meeting?

[Guest farmersdaughter]

The POA had membership meetings only 3 times yearly , at the last meeting it got heated between the board and the membership. The treasurer got up and walked out not liking the questions that were being asked. In the presidents absents the vice president was attempting to run the meeting. A board member called for adjournment and other board member second it. Than the board voted on it while one board member and a member were in a heated discussion. The membership attempted to call them out on it the shadey way they adjourned the meeting. I quess my question is can the board move to adjourn a membership meeting while there is still issues on the floor? And if they can or cant what step do we need to take if this happens in the future?

[Trina]

There is no board at a membership meeting. If the board members are also general members, they may attend the membership meeting, and exercise membership rights, on an equal footing with all the other members. 'The board' has no right whatsoever to vote to do anything at a membership meeting; the motion to adjourn would have required a majority vote from the membership to pass; those board members sitting there conducting their private vote should have been spinning their wheels -- the meeting should have continued despite their nonsense. If all the board members leave, as long as you still have quorum you can continue. Just elect a chair pro tem, and go on conducting business.

However, if the general membership didn't realize this, and most people headed for the doors when some board member said 'adjourn,' then the meeting (obviously) did come to an end. I'm not sure what the membership did to 'call them out,' but it was apparently ineffective.

[Guest farmersdaughter]

Calling them out, The members were saying as the board was walking out " Hey we did not vote on adjournment"

I had tought that we could go ahead and finish the meeting for ourself. I was confused on if we make and past motion what attority do we have to up hold what we passed? I am not new at all of this however I am new to all the drama this group is caught up in.!!! Thanks for your help.

[Rob Elsman]

Calling them out, The members were saying as the board was walking out " Hey we did not vote on adjournment"

I had tought that we could go ahead and finish the meeting for ourself. I was confused on if we make and past motion what attority do we have to up hold what we passed? I am not new at all of this however I am new to all the drama this group is caught up in.!!! Thanks for your help.

It sounds to me like your association needs a good shift in the balance of power in its meetings, which can be nicely accomplished by the general membership ordering--at the beginning of the general membership assembly meeting--the board members to leave the front of the meeting room and take their seats with the rest of the members. You will be surprised how effective this simple action is in dethroning your pontificating board and making the meeting what it truly is--a meeting of the association's full membership.

Any member of the general membership assembly can obtain the floor and make this main motion. It requires a second; is debatable; and, it requires a majority vote for adoption.

[Guest farmersdaughter]

So if I simple ask the chair to instruct the board members to have a seat with the rest of the membership that is ok? I assume the president and the sec will stay at the head to run the meeting?

[jstackpo]

Yes, that'll do it (provided those board members are not too egotistical and insist on staying put). If so, just point out that they are much better targets when they are up front.

And, right, the President and the Secretary (and dare I say it?) the Parliamentarian should be up front, flanking and helping the chair to look good.

[Guest farmersdaughter]

You got that part right !! I am sure there are going to be a few to refuse to move out of the spot light!!! (they love feeling important) I can just hear it now.... " The board has allows sit here during the meetings" , "My grandpapay sat here and my papay and I will sit here too." I will try it but I dont have any hope that ANY of them will move !! What the heck add to the drama.....Give them something to talk about...

[Rob Elsman]

So if I simple ask the chair to instruct the board members to have a seat with the rest of the membership that is ok? I assume the president and the sec will stay at the head to run the meeting?

"Mr. Chairman, I move that the members of the executive board who do not have officers' duties at this meeting take their seats with the rest of the members."

[David A Foulkes]

So if I simple ask the chair to instruct the board members to have a seat with the rest of the membership that is ok? I assume the president and the sec will stay at the head to run the meeting?

The problem you face, as is is evidenced by too many posters here, is that your "leaders" aren't playing by the rules (be they bylaws or RONR or whatever). They are bullies, taking advantage of what is likely an innocent ignorance on the part of your membership of parliamentary law and rules of order. Education is key here, if only for enough members to realize there are ways to take back control. If enough members realize your "leaders" are "mis-leaders" and care enough to make things right, it can be done. Until then, your best efforts are correcting this will likely be stymied by the mouth-breathers on the Board who tell you you're wrong, don't know what you're talking about, and sit down or leave.

You should get a copy of RONR and RONR-In Brief (a delightful afternoon's read), pass them around to like-minded members, and begin your reclamation. And keep posting here to get some sage advice.

[Guest farmersdaughter]

I am going to give it a try. Thanks for all advise on this forum I get some really wonderful help and ideas here!

[Rob Elsman]

You got that part right !! I am sure there are going to be a few to refuse to move out of the spot light!!! (they love feeling important) I can just hear it now.... " The board has allows sit here during the meetings" , "My grandpapay sat here and my papay and I will sit here too." I will try it but I dont have any hope that ANY of them will move !! What the heck add to the drama.....Give them something to talk about...

Failure to move, as ordered, is a grave offense (contempt of the assembly's legitimate order), for which the offender should be ejected from the meeting.

[Guest farmersdaughter]

My first book was Roberts Rules of Orders for dummies!! Maybe it is time I moved up?

[David A Foulkes]

My first book was Roberts Rules of Orders for dummies!! Maybe it is time I moved up?

My first book was "Dick, Jane and Spot go on a picnic." You've already got a jump on me!!!

[Rob Elsman]

I am going to give it a try. Thanks for all advise on this forum I get some really wonderful help and ideas here!

Good luck! And come back to let us know how it goes. You may find that you have a lot of supportive neighbors who are just as sick of this as you are.

[Guest farmersdaughter]

Failure to move, as ordered, is a grave offense (contempt of the assembly's legitimate order), for which the offender should be ejected from the meeting.

Yea right!!! No one is going to take on these bullies but me.... You all will have to come scrap me up off the sidewalk outside the clubhouse!!! I am always up for a good debate!!

[David A Foulkes]

Yea right!!! No one is going to take on these bullies but me.... You all will have to come scrap me up off the sidewalk outside the clubhouse!!! I am always up for a good debate!!

You may be surprised. They may just be waiting for your Norma Rae moment to stand up and say "um... yeah.... what SHE said!!"

[Rob Elsman]

My first book was Roberts Rules of Orders for dummies!! Maybe it is time I moved up?

Why don't you start with Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised in Brief? It's relatively inexpensive, and it would likely give you everything you need to be a fully-participating member. If it should ever happen that you decide to run for president, you can always graduate to the bigger book.

[Rob Elsman]

You may be surprised. They may just be waiting for your Norma Rae moment to stand up and say "um... yeah.... what SHE said!!"

See, that's what I'm thinking, too.

[Josh Martin]

I had tought that we could go ahead and finish the meeting for ourself. I was confused on if we make and past motion what attority do we have to up hold what we passed?

Yes, you could have, and should have continued the meeting despite the board's antics. So long as a quorum was still present, any motions adopted by the assembly would be valid.

And if Mr. Elsman's new seating arrangement is not sufficient to put the board members in their place, see FAQ #20 for more extreme measures. The board needs to be reminded that it is subordinate to the general membership, not the other way around. If your current board members are unable to understand that, they should be replaced.

[Guest Harry]

See, that's what I'm thinking, too.

Perhaps, but I think I'd try to find a half dozen supporters to know you have support.

Also consider drafting a slate. If the board suddenly resigns "in the intersts of thir families" [heh heh] you may need new leaders immediately.

[Guest farmersdaughter]

Good luck! And come back to let us know how it goes. You may find that you have a lot of supportive neighbors who are just as sick of this as you are.

Well I am back!!! I got on the agenda for the board meeting, we are required to put in a notice to the board to speak at any board meetings with topic listed.( they demand you address the board to get on the agenda for the membership meetings) Now I really understand why they want notice on what you want to address the board about! There was not enough board members show up for the board meeting they did not have a quorum. I was really suprize as I saw all the board members at the club house earlier in the day. Word travel fast in our POA community and support for our cause is flowing out of the wood so I really beleive they are scared. So now the next board/membership meetings will take place after the re-election of officers! There is now a planned membership meeting , oops maybe I should say gathering (lol) " just sit and talk" about where the membership wants to go from here!! We have several board positions opened we as membership plan to take back our POA. We all realize it is going to be a battle as the good old boy group doesnt want to change things as they dont think it is broken. Even if we cant get change to the board we will be able to put the board on noitce that there are members ready to step up and take their place if they dont do as the members wishes..

[Gary c Tesser]

Late to this dance, but a couple of thoughts.

1. Of course, as has been pointed out (e.g ., Rob Elsman and Trina), the board members have no right at a membership meeting to assert, or imply, some authority not there, such as by sitting in a group at the front of the room, typically around a table, sometimes suggestively with impressive stacks of paper in front of each of them.

-- 1 (a). Especially, the board members have no right to still sit there if ordered by the membership to get offa there -- they have the duty to leave. It could get messy, though, to up and bring in Chapter Twenty or FAQ #20 at the time -- even if (as you really ought to) lots of allies have been prepared. I like to suggest that, should the board members decline to move, a bunch of members (having been prompted, and preferably close to everybody) just pick up their chairs and crowd around that "board" table. Phenomenally effective. Do expect opposition. Consider either having your big burly guys go first, to overcome bullying resistance; or, if it might work better tactically, small people and women (to highlight the bullying of the resistance).

2. Have your troops prepared for the president's tactic of declaring the meeting adjourned as he promptly flounces out with his minions. Preferably everybody will be pre-informed to know that the meeting has not really been adjourned legitimately. But for the benighted few, make sure someone with a stentorian voice promptly advises everyone to hold still.

3 . (re. farmersdaughter, 24 July 2010 at 1:17 PM, "I had thought that we could go ahead and finish the meeting for ourself. I was confused on if we make and past motion what authority do we have to up hold what we passed?"")

-- Complete authority. The membership just did official acts at a membership meeting. Since the presence of the board at a membership meeting is irrelevant, the board's being uncooperative simply emphasized the authority of the membership at its own meeting, and emphasized the board's lack of authority. Just be sure everybody recognizes this.

4. I disagree with the question-and-answer, farmersdaughter of 24 July 2010, 01:48 PM and Dr Stackpole, 1:56 PM. Sure, farmer's daughter can ask. And if they comply, fine. But as Trina and Mr Elsman pointed out, that's not what this situation is about. It's not about farmersdaughter requesting, and the board obliging or not -- it's about the MEMBERSHIP giving the board and instruction, and the board COMPLYING. (Or, of course, flouting the membership's proper direction ... and getting the consequences. If the membership is ready to deliver the consequences.)

5. Robert's Rules for Dummies was written by one of the best parliamentarians I ever heard of. (OK, my copy was free. But he's sharp anyway.) Don't denigrate it.

-- 5 (a). Let's set aside Foulkes' taste in literature.

6. "So now the next board/membership meetings ..." Be sure which is which! Remember, that at BOARD meetings, it's the REGULAR MEMBERSHIP that has no rights!

[David A Foulkes]

-- 5 (a). Let's set aside Foulkes' taste in literature.

[Guest farmerdaughter]

Late to this dance, but a couple of thoughts.

1. Of course, as has been pointed out (e.g ., Rob Elsman and Trina), the board members have no right at a membership meeting to assert, or imply, some authority not there, such as by sitting in a group at the front of the room, typically around a table, sometimes suggestively with impressive stacks of paper in front of each of them.

-- 1 (a). Especially, the board members have no right to still sit there if ordered by the membership to get offa there -- they have the duty to leave. It could get messy, though, to up and bring in Chapter Twenty or FAQ #20 at the time -- even if (as you really ought to) lots of allies have been prepared. I like to suggest that, should the board members decline to move, a bunch of members (having been prompted, and preferably close to everybody) just pick up their chairs and crowd around that "board" table. Phenomenally effective. Do expect opposition. Consider either having your big burly guys go first, to overcome bullying resistance; or, if it might work better tactically, small people and women (to highlight the bullying of the resistance).

2. Have your troops prepared for the president's tactic of declaring the meeting adjourned as he promptly flounces out with his minions. Preferably everybody will be pre-informed to know that the meeting has not really been adjourned legitimately. But for the benighted few, make sure someone with a stentorian voice promptly advises everyone to hold still.

3 . (re. farmersdaughter, 24 July 2010 at 1:17 PM, "I had thought that we could go ahead and finish the meeting for ourself. I was confused on if we make and past motion what authority do we have to up hold what we passed?"")

-- Complete authority. The membership just did official acts at a membership meeting. Since the presence of the board at a membership meeting is irrelevant, the board's being uncooperative simply emphasized the authority of the membership at its own meeting, and emphasized the board's lack of authority. Just be sure everybody recognizes this.

4. I disagree with the question-and-answer, farmersdaughter of 24 July 2010, 01:48 PM and Dr Stackpole, 1:56 PM. Sure, farmer's daughter can ask. And if they comply, fine. But as Trina and Mr Elsman pointed out, that's not what this situation is about. It's not about farmersdaughter requesting, and the board obliging or not -- it's about the MEMBERSHIP giving the board and instruction, and the board COMPLYING. (Or, of course, flouting the membership's proper direction ... and getting the consequences. If the membership is ready to deliver the consequences.)

5. Robert's Rules for Dummies was written by one of the best parliamentarians I ever heard of. (OK, my copy was free. But he's sharp anyway.) Don't denigrate it.

-- 5 (a). Let's set aside Foulkes' taste in literature.

6. "So now the next board/membership meetings ..." Be sure which is which! Remember, that at BOARD meetings, it's the REGULAR MEMBERSHIP that has no rights!

Thank You so much I plan to print this forum off to head out to the group so they can see that I am not the only on tha says we have rights....Let me clear this up there is ALWAY a board meeting prior to every MEMBERSHIP meeting. I beleive in the past it was used to get their game plan in line as they always knew what the membership had on the agenda. However now we have an average of 10 members attending every board meeting and taking notes..... Again this web forum is wonderful for all us newbies....

[George Mervosh]

Will I learn anything from the 23 preceeding posts, or should I move on?