Voting Process

[Guest Sorority Standards]

We have an issue where our members will be voting on putting a specific member on probation.

Their vote will be to put the member on probation, or to not put her on probation.

I will be explaining to all of the members the factual reasons as to why we are voting on this individual's probation.

Our Executive Board has already come up with the terms of the probation and they are not to be changed, do we need to give this information to the chapter during my explanation? Are we allowed to have the probation set in stone, and not allow changes to it?

What we want to do is have our chapter simply vote on whether or not they think a probation is necessary. Once a probation is voted upon, we want to place her on the probation that we came up with as an Executive Board. Is this even possible or do we have to give the chapter an opportunity to voice what their opinions as to what the probation should be?

[Guest Sorority Standards]

We have an issue where our members will be voting on putting a specific member on probation.

Their vote will be to put the member on probation, or to not put her on probation.

I will be explaining to all of the members the factual reasons as to why we are voting on this individual's probation.

Our Executive Board has already come up with the terms of the probation and they are not to be changed, do we need to give this information to the chapter during my explanation? Are we allowed to have the probation set in stone, and not allow changes to it?

What we want to do is have our chapter simply vote on whether or not they think a probation is necessary. Once a probation is voted upon, we want to place her on the probation that we came up with as an Executive Board. Is this even possible or do we have to give the chapter an opportunity to voice what their opinions as to what the probation should be?

Also, is the member in question allowed to vote as well?

[Kim Goldsworthy]

We have an issue where our members will be voting on putting a specific member on probation.

Okay. I will assume that you are following the proper rules (your own rules or Chapter XX in Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (RONR 10th ed.)).

Their vote will be to put the member on probation, or to not put her on probation.

Well, that is poorly put, but I think I get what you are getting at.

(You won't be voting on any motion worded in the negative, like "To not put Mr. X on probation." - That is out of order.)

I will be explaining to all of the members the factual reasons as to why we are voting on this individual's probation.

Really?

You are not following RONR's Chapter XX (the chapter on "discipline")?

Our Executive Board has already come up with the terms of the probation and they are not to be changed, ...

Wow!

You really aren't following anything close to RONR Chapter XX, are you?

... do we need to give this information to the chapter during my explanation?

Hard to say, since you are following a procedure not coming from RONR, but some kind of strange hodge-podge of procedure.

Are we allowed to have the probation set in stone, and not allow changes to it?

You must allow changes, since the board isn't involved. - Assuming you are following RONR.

If you aren't following RONR, then no answer is possible. - Only you guys (people who have read your bylaws) know what you are doing, and why you are doing it.

What we want to do is have our chapter simply vote on whether or not they think a probation is necessary.

Why? Where did this new limitation come from? The board? How did a board get involved?

Once a probation is voted upon, we want to place her on the probation that we came up with as an Executive Board.

Who is "we"?

Why can't the party responsible for the verdict be likewise responsible for the sentence?

Is this even possible or do we have to give the chapter an opportunity to voice what their opinions as to what the probation should be?

Are you asking a question about your own unique rules?

Are you asking a question about Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (RONR), Chapter XX Section 61?

[Guest Sorority Standards]

Okay. I will assume that you are following the proper rules (your own rules or Chapter XX in Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (RONR 10th ed.)).

Well, that is poorly put, but I think I get what you are getting at.

(You won't be voting on any motion worded in the negative, like "To not put Mr. X on probation." - That is out of order.)

Really?

You are not following RONR's Chapter XX (the chapter on "discipline")?

Wow!

You really aren't following anything close to RONR Chapter XX, are you?

Hard to say, since you are following a procedure not coming from RONR, but some kind of strange hodge-podge of procedure.

You must allow changes, since the board isn't involved. - Assuming you are following RONR.

If you aren't following RONR, then no answer is possible. - Only you guys (people who have read your bylaws) know what you are doing, and why you are doing it.

Why? Where did this new limitation come from? The board? How did a board get involved?

Who is "we"?

Why can't the party responsible for the verdict be likewise responsible for the sentence?

Are you asking a question about your own unique rules?

Are you asking a question about Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (RONR), Chapter XX Section 61?

Oh goodness. We are supposed to be following Robert's Rules of Order but in accordance with our bylaws. Basically, after I explain what the member did, I will have the chapter vote in favor, or opposed to a probation for said member. Our Chapter has specific bylaws on Discipline/Conduct, but the only way that a member can be placed on a probation (without having to bring it to a chapter vote which DOES follow Roberts Rules of Order) is if our Chapter Advisor places the member in question on probation. Our Chapter Advisor wanted our Executive Board (Pres, VP, and 5 other VP's of different activities) to come up with what the terms of probation would be. She also wanted the Chapter as a whole to vote on whether or not the member should be placed on probation because it is a member that the majority of the chapter has VERY strong feelings towards. Our chapter tends to get very loud/out of hand when too much discussion of a topic happens and we don't want it to become World War III, so that's why we don't want to be able to have discussion on the terms of probation (as long nobody motions to discuss it, I think we'll be fine). We is the Executive Board.

[David A Foulkes]

Our Chapter has specific bylaws on Discipline/Conduct, but the only way that a member can be placed on a probation.... is if our Chapter Advisor places the member in question on probation. Our Chapter Advisor wanted our Executive Board (Pres, VP, and 5 other VP's of different activities) to come up with what the terms of probation would be. She also wanted the Chapter as a whole to vote on whether or not the member should be placed on probation ....

Me: "Hey, Madame Chapter Advisor, how're ya doin?"

CA: (in hushed tones, holding out a dollar bill) Here, take this.

Is ANYONE following ANY rules ANY where? If they were, this question would be answered. If you won't follow RONR or your own bylaws, well......

[Kim Goldsworthy]

Oh goodness. We are supposed to be following Robert's Rules of Order but in accordance with our bylaws.

We can answer questions about Robert's Rules of Order.

We cannot confirm that you are or aren't following your own unique disciplinary process. (... "Advisors" ... "probation" ..."

Basically, after I explain what the member did, ...

That is not Robert's Rules.

There is no single person who does all the talking.

There is a little detail called a "trial". And a "defense."

Piddling things like that there.

... I will have the chapter vote in favor, or opposed to a probation for said member.

That is not Robert's Rules.

You skipped the most important part of Chapter XX Section 61: the trial.

Our Chapter has specific bylaws on Discipline/Conduct, but the only way that a member can be placed on a probation (without having to bring it to a chapter vote which DOES follow Roberts Rules of Order) is if our Chapter Advisor places the member in question on probation.

"Ditto."

Our Chapter Advisor wanted our Executive Board (Pres, VP, and 5 other VP's of different activities) to come up with what the terms of probation would be.

"Ditto."

She also wanted the Chapter as a whole to vote on whether or not the member should be placed on probation because it is a member that the majority of the chapter has VERY strong feelings towards.

"Hooray!"

That's getting there.

Our chapter tends to get [hyperactive] so that's why we don't want to be able to have discussion on the terms of probation...

That is not Robert's Rules.

You cannot prevent debate.

"Geez, Louise!" - The guy is going to be kicked out, and he gets zero opportunity to defend himself?

We is the Executive Board.

That is not Robert's Rules.

A board (an inferior body) will not be dictating any terms to anyone, anywhere, at any time.

Let's see - you had originally asked about whether the membership should debate the issue, and vote on the issue.

Well, yeah, they are in charge, and they do get to vote and to debate prior to vote.

So, the Big Picture (or the answer to the Big Picture question) does not change, despite the extra curricular activities going on. - Members, not board, is in charge of suspending "one of their own."

Since there is so much interplay between (a.) your bylaws' process; vs. (b.) RONR's process; then I fear no answer will be truly complete and truly accurate, but only generic, and only applicable where there is no conflicting rule(s).

Do you want a generic answer? You've got that now.

If you want an answer which takes into account your bylaws' unique process, then you may have to hire a local in-person parliamentarian, who can read your documents and synthesize a process between #a and #b, i.e., where the conflicts are, and where the conflicts are not.

Contact the A.I.P. or N.A.P. for a referral, a list of local parliamentarians.