Special meeting/Adjourn meeting

[farmersdaughter]

Recently the board called for adjournment to a membership meeting and walked out on the membership without calling of membership vote. The board did not like the questions the membership was asking and ended it with New Business still on the table. Do to building pressure from the membership the meeting was reschedule a notice was sent for a special meeting stating for the purpose of adjournment. Now here is my question should it not have been a notice for Adjourned meeting or would this not qaulify?

[Robert B Fish]

should it not have been a notice for Adjourned meeting or would this not qaulify?

You can hold an adjourned meeting only if the motion "to fix the time to which to adjourn" was adopted at the previous meeting. As it was not, you will not be holding an adjourned meeting.

Since the people walked out of the meeting and nothing else happened, the meeting did adjourn by common consent.

Unless the bylaws allow having special meetings, they cannot do so. If the bylaws do allow special meetings, the procedures in the bylaws for calling a special meeting must be followed.

If the board continues to act like this, see FAQ#20. Also read Official Interpretations 2006-12, -13.

-Bob

[Gary c Tesser]

And next time, when the board walks out, ignore their empty statement that the MEMBERSHIP MEETING was adjourned; good riddance to them, and let the membership continue its meeting without them.

[Mr. J!]

...a notice was sent for a special meeting stating for the purpose of adjournment.

Calling a meeting "for the purpose of adjournment" is absurd and dilatory.

[farmersdaughter]

Our by-laws address the issue of special meeting and they did as the by-law say by stating what the purpose of the special meeting was. However all it said was for the purpose of Adjournment. They also quoted RRO about items to be discussed is limited to adjournment. I know the board is playing games I just not sure how to trump their ACE !!! I have been told before that the membership can continue with OUR meeting by appointing our own chairman. My concern is how do we get the board to follow through with any motions the membership makes?

[Chris Harrison]

They also quoted RRO about items to be discussed is limited to adjournment. I know the board is playing games I just not sure how to trump their ACE !!!

I have no clue what they are talking about. You should ask them to point out in RONR some language that supports their position.

My concern is how do we get the board to follow through with any motions the membership makes?

They would be derelict in their duties if they don't follow the instructions of the Membership. If they do refuse to follow your instructions it might be time to remove them from office and elect those who know their place. See FAQ #20 as was noted above.

[farmersdaughter]

the wording on the notice is According to RRO Absolutely nothing can be done in a special meeting if it is not specifically included in the notice or call of this meeting. The the reason to call this meeting is for the purpose of adjournin the July 27th membership meeting. So are you telling me they are misleading us once again. I have the RRO for dummies and have order the news RRO however it has not come. Any guildance will be greatly appreciated.

[Rob Elsman]

Recently the board called for adjournment to a membership meeting and walked out on the membership without calling of membership vote. The board did not like the questions the membership was asking and ended it with New Business still on the table. Do to building pressure from the membership the meeting was reschedule a notice was sent for a special meeting stating for the purpose of adjournment. Now here is my question should it not have been a notice for Adjourned meeting or would this not qaulify?

"The board" does not pontificate over meetings of the general membership assembly. "The board" does not "...call[] for adjournment to a memberhsip meeting...". Your society's general membership meetings will go much better if the members of the board do not sit at the front of the meeting room. At the beginning of a meeting of the general membership assembly, any member of the assembly can obtain the floor and move that the members of the board who do not have presiding or secretarial responsibilities at the meeting take their seats with the rest of the members of the assembly. This is a main motion; it requires a second, is debatable, and requires a majority vote for adoption. I think you will find that the change in the seating arrangements will restore the proper balance of power in the meeting, and the proceedings will go much more fairly and smoothly.

[Gary c Tesser]

And if the mountain will not go to Mohammed ...

If the board members defy the order passed by the membership to disperse among the members -- where they belong -- try to have a few members ready to pick up their chairs and go join the board members at the front. But don't expect the board to go along cheerfully. Maybe the members moving up should be big guys, to discourage bullying by the board -- or small people, to call attention to the bullying.

But look, as Mr. J! pointed out, the meeting WAS adjourned, by everybody leaving. The purpose of this special meeting is absurd. It is true enough that nothing can be done at a special meeting except what was stated in the call of the meeting. But you have nothing to do at that special meeting. Am I remembering correctly, that this is the same bunch of bozos who claimed that if a meeting was not formally adjourned (even though everyone left and the last one out turned the lights off), it's still ongoing? (Was that the thread on which Mr Mervosh pointed out that RONR, with only 800 pages, can't think of every single wacky idea that it might have to rebut?)

[farmersdaughter]

Yes Gary you have made that suggestion before and we have plans to use it. Just like you told us to we will all move around the table. I beleive this is all to avoid the membership until after the election. I maybe as bad as them as trying to bully them into listening to us! I had personally email someone on this board in hope they could help me better one on one however I have not heard back from them. So I guess maybe it would be best to run my thoughts past you all.... My thought was IF the board moves to adjourn I could call point of order and state the board cant move to adjourn a membership meeting. If a member moves to adjourn (the board does have a few fans) I could call point of order as the order of the day was not followed at the previous meeting,there was till new business to be address.And I thought maybe I could still appeal the decision of the chair. Which would require a vote right? I know adjournment is not debateble but can there be debate on if the motion to adjourn is appropiate? Or am I so far off I need to tuck my tail and run?????

[Guest Nancy N.]

Yes Gary you have made that suggestion before and we have plans to use it. Just like you told us to we will all move around the table. I beleive this is all to avoid the membership until after the election. I maybe as bad as them as trying to bully them into listening to us! I had personally email someone on this board in hope they could help me better one on one however I have not heard back from them. So I guess maybe it would be best to run my thoughts past you all.... My thought was IF the board moves to adjourn I could call point of order and state the board cant move to adjourn a membership meeting. If a member moves to adjourn (the board does have a few fans) I could call point of order as the order of the day was not followed at the previous meeting,there was till new business to be address.And I thought maybe I could still appeal the decision of the chair. Which would require a vote right? I know adjournment is not debateble but can there be debate on if the motion to adjourn is appropiate? Or am I so far off I need to tuck my tail and run?????

[Guest Nancy N.]

Yes Gary you have made that suggestion before and we have plans to use it. Just like you told us to we will all move around the table. I beleive this is all to avoid the membership until after the election. I maybe as bad as them as trying to bully them into listening to us! I had personally email someone on this board in hope they could help me better one on one however I have not heard back from them. So I guess maybe it would be best to run my thoughts past you all.... My thought was IF the board moves to adjourn I could call point of order and state the board cant move to adjourn a membership meeting. If a member moves to adjourn (the board does have a few fans) I could call point of order as the order of the day was not followed at the previous meeting,there was till new business to be address.And I thought maybe I could still appeal the decision of the chair. Which would require a vote right? I know adjournment is not debateble but can there be debate on if the motion to adjourn is appropiate? Or am I so far off I need to tuck my tail and run?????

(This way??)

A little dialog. I made up about half. Okay, probably a little more than half. So a majority. Maybe, then, I'm answering by example a FAQ. -- A tangential thought.

farmer's daughter: "I maybe as bad as them as trying to bully them into listening to us!"

-- Nancy N.: Naah.

farmer's daughter: "I had personally e-mail someone on this board in hope they could help me better one on one however I have not heard back from them."

-- Nancy N.: If this is an indication that the board has hunkered down with an us-vs.-them mentality, the board vs. the membership, ... Oh my.

Farmer's daughter: " So I guess maybe it would be best to run my thoughts past you all.."

-- Nancy N.: You could do worse, but it's no panacea.

Farmer's daughter: "My thought was IF the board moves to adjourn I could call point of order and state the board can't move to adjourn a membership meeting.... "

-- Nancy N.: Remember, every board member who is also a regular member has the rights of all regular members. So a board member who is a regular member can move to adjourn, at almost any time, notwithstanding the status of the agenda or the order of business -- just as any other regular member can. Even if there is business still scheduled to be addressed. So, unless I'm badly misunderstanding the situation, a Point of Order would not be appropriate, because no rule was being violated.

-- Do note that, of course, the BOARD does not do any moving of motions. Members do.

Farmer's daughter: "I know adjournment is not debateble but can there be debate on if the motion to adjourn is appropriate?"

-- Nancy N.: I'm not sure what you're asking, but I suspect not.

Farmer's daughter: "Or am I so far off I need to tuck my tail and run?????"

-- Nancy N.: No matter how far off you might be, do no tucking of body parts or running.

... Farmer's daughter, have you read your RONR-In Brief a couple of times yet?

[Guest Nancy N.]

Oh, and another thing ...

1. Re. my "... Farmer's daughter, have you read your RONR-In Brief a couple of times yet?" -- If not, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! It's the difference between reading by candle-light and slurping split-pea soup with slivers of kosher salami. That is, they are both rewarding, each in its way, but one is like reading in dim light.

2. Oh yeah: regardless of who makes the motion to adjourn, it's a MAJORITY VOTE -- by the membership, if it's a membership meeting, that enacts a formal adjournment. (Which is not to give any credence to the wacky idea previously dispatched.)

[Tim Wynn]

Farmer's Daughter,

The elected officials work for the organization (the membership). That's important to remember. Imagine you owned an ice-cream shop and you hired somebody to run the cash register. Would you be wondering how to get the new cashier to turn over the money? Would it be considered "bullying" the cashier, if you insisted that he show up on time, do his job, and stay until his shift is over? Would you allow him to dictate how much money can be spent and what can be purchased with it, just because he sits at the cash drawer?

When you hire a driver, he doesn't take you wherever he wants. When you elect a presiding officer, he doesn't adjourn the meeting; he operates by the rules of the organization, or the assembly terminate him. Imagine you got into a cab and the driver refused to take you where you want to go; instead he insists on taking you where he wants to go. You wouldn't fumble around for a tactful way of coming to an agreement or try to see his position. You would simply exit the cab and look for another one. It's as if the membership chartered several buses and hired the board members to drive them. These "drivers" can't decide to take the group somewhere it doesn't want to go. That would be absurd. If the board isn't carrying out the orders of the membership, take action.

[farmersdaughter]

Thank you all for your help. The meeting I was worried about was this past Sunday. And it was just as I thought the board stated that the motion to adjourn as made and seconded by the board however there was no vote called or they just all walked out. So the Vice President who was running the meeting that day called the "Special meeting" to order and called for a vote. I first called for point of order that meeting was for the membership and it was improper for the board to call for adjournment. The board argued that they are also members of the POA and can call for adjournment. The vice president again attempted to call for a vote and I called point of order and stated the motion was inappropiate as the order of the day was not followed and new business was not called for. She still attempted to call for a vote and I dont know if it was the right thing to do or not however I appealed the decision of the chair. Well this throw them all for a loop and she did not know what to do! Several board members left during all this in attempt to find someone to help them as they were in over their head!! The president was waiting outside as he was told by the vice president and sec. that he could not come in as he was not at the meeting when it was adjourned. They told all the members that were waiting outside that unless they were at the last meeting they could not come in however the received notice of a special meeting to be held sent out by the Sec. Anyway thye gave in however the meeting was a mess!!! I should have let them adjourn the meeting!!! That is another posting all together.... Thanks for all your help!!!!!

[Josh Martin]

Thank you all for your help. The meeting I was worried about was this past Sunday. And it was just as I thought the board stated that the motion to adjourn as made and seconded by the board however there was no vote called or they just all walked out. So the Vice President who was running the meeting that day called the "Special meeting" to order and called for a vote. I first called for point of order that meeting was for the membership and it was improper for the board to call for adjournment. The board argued that they are also members of the POA and can call for adjournment. The vice president again attempted to call for a vote and I called point of order and stated the motion was inappropiate as the order of the day was not followed and new business was not called for. She still attempted to call for a vote and I dont know if it was the right thing to do or not however I appealed the decision of the chair. Well this throw them all for a loop and she did not know what to do! Several board members left during all this in attempt to find someone to help them as they were in over their head!! The president was waiting outside as he was told by the vice president and sec. that he could not come in as he was not at the meeting when it was adjourned. They told all the members that were waiting outside that unless they were at the last meeting they could not come in however the received notice of a special meeting to be held sent out by the Sec. Anyway thye gave in however the meeting was a mess!!! I should have let them adjourn the meeting!!! That is another posting all together.... Thanks for all your help!!!!!

Unless the next regular election is really soon, I would take a good long look at FAQ #20. One way or another, your organization needs to get rid of the lot of these clowns.

[Gary c Tesser]

It also needs members who will damn well know they have the right to enter the room, and go there. And maybe a president who knows that he has the right to attend a meeting even if he wasn't present at the previous one. -- oh wait, maybe that's what Mr Martin means about the clowns.

And needs a few members who have read RONR - IN Brief already. farmer's daughter, please please please, you're among that number now, yes?

[Edited to insert words]

[Thomas Ralph]

If the board members are also members of the organization, they are entitled to move for adjournment just as much as other members are.

[Josh Martin]

If the board members are also members of the organization, they are entitled to move for adjournment just as much as other members are.

Yes, but that does not appear to be what happened.

[farmersdaughter]

If the board members are also members of the organization, they are entitled to move for adjournment just as much as other members are.

Yes I understand that yes they are also consider members. They work for all the members not theirself.

During the off months sometimes the board out numbers the members in a membership meeting. So those with personal adgendas are able to get things passed that normally would not fly. So where do you draw the line? PERSONAL AGENDAS are top priority for this board. So how do you let this continue?

[hmtcastle]

So how do you let this continue?

It's all about getting out the vote. Members get the association they deserve. If most don't care enough to attend meetings, perhaps they're content with things the way they are.

Venting on this forum might make you feel better but no one here, besides you, has a vote.

[farmersdaughter]

I did ask that the board move from the front and have a seat with other members of they want to make motions at the lastnight. Of course that went over like a lead ballon!! All but one refused , most everyone moved to the front tables. The Sgt of Arms was instructed to remove all of us...Of course he had his hands full and know better....lol... All BUT the president walked out of the meeting. Our by-laws say we must have 25 members present for a meeting and the walk out took us down to 23. (Most of the spouses walked with the board) Needless to say we did not hold the meeting. However the President did just continue to meet with he members to hear our concerns. I know he is scared of our new found strenght and does not want to be on our list....LOL We as members had called for an audit of the books in April and have still not received it. I have a meeting with the ASSOC attorney this week. However I was told by the Vice President that attorney works for the board and the board will not allow the attorney to address the membership!!So I guess I will have to wait and see if the meeting goes on as promised.

[farmersdaughter]

It's all about getting out the vote. Members get the association they deserve. If most don't care enough to attend meetings, perhaps they're content with things the way they are.

Venting on this forum might make you feel better but no one here, besides you, has a vote.

Your right I does make me feel better!!! There is 465 in the POA on average only 112 ballots are returned. Our election is coming up and there is alot of people running to change the board. However there is alot of business that the board is attempting to run through the meeting to feed their agendas. Again as I addressed before the board is mostly 3 and 4 generation so the good old boy thinking is alive and well. I have personally went out and beat the bushes and ask for peoples to attend meetings. That is how I found out when the last special meeting called NOT all members were notified. The members that just own their property and don't attend meeting ( most of them live out of state) have no idea things are so bad. Several members told me that they have not received ballots for election in years. So explain that one ! That is why I have to get involved to protect those who have been promise protection and is not receiving it....

[Trina]

I did ask that the board move from the front and have a seat with other members of they want to make motions at the lastnight. Of course that went over like a lead ballon!! All but one refused , most everyone moved to the front tables. The Sgt of Arms was instructed to remove all of us...Of course he had his hands full and know better....lol... All BUT the president walked out of the meeting. Our by-laws say we must have 25 members present for a meeting and the walk out took us down to 23. (Most of the spouses walked with the board)....

It sounds as though you're getting there with the numbers -- keep working at it