Membership approval of Executive Board compensation

[Greg]

I'd like to get your opinion on this, I think I may have asked this before but the situation has updated somewhat.

At a recent membership meeting I made the motion to to allow the membership to be given the opportunity to approve or not approve the salaries and expenses paid to all full time pulls on the Executive Board as per bylaw Article VII (e) states. The motion was seconded.

Our bylaw Article VII (e) states....The Executive Board shall set salaries and or expenses for all Officers, subject to the approval of the membership

at membership meetings.

The President has ruled the motion as improper (by the way, it was ruled improper when no meeting was in progress) because as he states the membership WAS and has given approval. When I asked him to produce documentation to that effect, some sort of minutes, where the vote was recorded, he can't produce it, at least not yet. He says it was before his time...

What do you suggest we do in this case?

If no record can be found that specifically shows the membership has approved the pay of our Local full time pulls what recourse does RONR offer?

Please advise.

[hmtcastle]

At a recent membership meeting I made the motion to to allow the membership to be given the opportunity to approve or not approve the salaries and expenses paid to all full time pulls on the Executive Board as per bylaw Article VII (e) states. The motion was seconded.

Our bylaw Article VII (e) states....The Executive Board shall set salaries and or expenses for all Officers, subject to the approval of the membership

at membership meetings.

So you made a motion to allow the membership to do what the bylaws already require the membership to do?

I'd probably rule that motion out of order too.

[Greg]

Sorry, forgot to add one important fact. The President has ruled my motion as improper, which by the way was ruled improper when no

membership meeting was actually in progress. The President states that the membership did give approval via a membership meeting vote,

he just can't prove it or document or confirm it actually exist. Is there anyway to still make this motion binding and on the agenda to

be voted on?

[hmtcastle]

The President states that the membership did give approval via a membership meeting vote, he just can't prove it or document or confirm it actually exist.

I suppose you could raise a point of order at the next meeting to the effect that the salaries were never approved. That might shift the burden of proof onto the president.

I assume you've already examined the minutes and found nothing to support his claim.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

At a recent membership meeting I made the motion to [do X]. The motion was seconded.

Q. Then what happened?

A motion is moved and seconded.

What was the result?

The President has ruled the motion as improper. By the way, it was ruled improper when no meeting was in progress.

"Holy time travel, Batman!"

How can you:

(a.) make a motion, and have it seconded, inside "a recent membership meeting";

... and then jump to ...

(b.) having your moved/seconded motion be ruled as being "improper" when no meeting was in progress?

Q. Where did your meeting go, in the blink of an eye?

(Especially, after a second was obtained!)

[Greg]

Q. Then what happened?

A motion is moved and seconded.

What was the result?

"Holy time travel, Batman!"

How can you:

(a.) make a motion, and have it seconded, inside "a recent membership meeting";

... and then jump to ...

(b.) having your moved/seconded motion be ruled as being "improper" when no meeting was in progress?

Q. Where did your meeting go, in the blink of an eye?

(Especially, after a second was obtained!)

Kim, I'll explain. We have 8 domiciles and are required to hold a meeting in each domicile. We call each domicle meeting 1 session and recess inbetween sessions, the Pres. and the recording secretary then travel to the next meeting domicile and conduct the next session of the meeting. All 8 sessions,

constitute the "meeting". I made a motion and it was seconded. In order to give all members previous notice of a motion, we don't vote on the motion until the next round of meetings. So the motion was made and seconded. Later after all the sessions were over the Pres. ruled the motion improper based on the factg that he says the membership HAS approved the Executive Board salaries, yet still he can't produce the minutes to confirm it. Now my question to you is,

what would you do?

[Greg]

So you made a motion to allow the membership to do what the bylaws already require the membership to do?

I'd probably rule that motion out of order too.

Mr. Mountcastle,

I think you head the nail on the head. I did make a motion to require the membership to do what the bylaws already require the membership to do.

But I did it because the members in all their apathy don't know they have the bylaw right to do exactly what I moved.

When I made the motion, I had already confirmed that the membership never did approve the salaries of the Executive Board, yet the President

insist they did, yet even then he could not show documentation to support his claim.....what would you do if you were me in the next meeting?

HELP!!!

[Kim Goldsworthy]

... the Pres. and the recording secretary then travel to the next meeting domicile and conduct the next session of the meeting.

All 8 sessions constitute the "meeting".

... Later, after all the sessions were over, the Pres. ruled the motion improper ...

... What would you do?

Your question is not based on anything inside Robert's Rules of Order.

Your question is more akin to, "Per our unique, customized procedures, what step would be proper as the next step?"

We cannot answer questions based on rules foreign to everything inside the 700+ pages of Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (RONR 10th ed. 2000).

So, I recommend that you follow the customized procedure in your bylaws, constitution, or controlling documents.

There is no answer using Robert's Rules of Order alone, since Robert's Rules of Order won't apply, where there is already a conflicting rule in place.

(And, ye gods, you got conflicting rules galore!)

[Josh Martin]

what would you do if you were me in the next meeting?

I don't know about Mr. Mountcastle, but I would raise a Point of Order that the membership must approve any Executive Board compensation and that it has not yet done so. When the chair ruled my Point of Order not well taken, I'd appeal from the decision of the chair. I'm not sure where to go from there as I don't know exactly what you want to do about the compensation or exactly how this Bylaw works. What happens if the compensation isn't approved? Does no one get compensation? Does the Executive Board try to come up with a more acceptable package? Does anyone even know what would happen? Has it happened before?

Depending on how irritated I was at the President after settling all that, I might use FAQ #20 too.

Then I'd read J. J.'s article on shift meetings so I can propose Bylaw revisions at future meetings, as I'm sure the provisions in the Bylaws for this are woefully inadequate (perhaps even non-existent). After all that I'd probably want a beer or two.

[Shmuel Gerber]

I'd like to get your opinion on this, I think I may have asked this before but the situation has updated somewhat.

At a recent membership meeting I made the motion to to allow the membership to be given the opportunity to approve or not approve the salaries and expenses paid to all full time pulls on the Executive Board as per bylaw Article VII (e) states. The motion was seconded.

....

If no record can be found that specifically shows the membership has approved the pay of our Local full time pulls what recourse does RONR offer?

What is a "pull"?

[hmtcastle]

I don't know about Mr. Mountcastle, but . . . After all that I'd probably want a beer or two.

I couldn't have said it better.

[Gary c Tesser]

What is a "pull"?

Yes. Greg, a "pull" seems to be an employed member: is that correct? Where do you know the word from? Is it a usage particular to your organization? (Without blabbing your business over the Internet, where all thirty regular readers of the world's premier Internet parliamentary forum can freely see it, can you describe the nature of the organization?) Or is it specific to Indiana or Minnesota or San Anselmo or maybe some other place I may have heard of?

(O Great Steaming Cobnuts, I wrote "the nature of." And it's not even anyone's birthday.)

[hmtcastle]

What is a "pull"?

Yes. Greg, a "pull" seems to be an employed member: is that correct?

I'm going to guess it's a typo but I'm as curious as the next guy. Or at least as curious as the two previous guys.

[Greg]

I'm going to guess it's a typo but I'm as curious as the next guy. Or at least as curious as the two previous guys.

Sorry, a pull is our industry slang for a flight attendant who has his line of flying all pulled so he can work in the Union office as a Executive Board Officer or staff member.

[hmtcastle]

Sorry, a pull is our industry slang for a flight attendant who has his line of flying all pulled so he can work in the Union office as a Executive Board Officer or staff member.

Well, thanks, but that raises the question of what it means to have one's line of flying all pulled.

I'm thinking of Steven Slater on JetBlue flight 1052.

[David A Foulkes]

Kim, I'll explain. We have 8 domiciles and are required to hold a meeting in each domicile. We call each domicle meeting 1 session and recess inbetween sessions, the Pres. and the recording secretary then travel to the next meeting domicile and conduct the next session of the meeting. All 8 sessions,

constitute the "meeting".

I'm wondering if, as RONR is fond of using the phrase, Greg belongs to an "ordinary society?" This sounds a bit more like the parliamentarians version of speed-dating.

Although it has given me a bit of new slang, in those instances where a persons words and/or motives are suspect: "Are you pulling my flight line?"

[Greg]

Hey guys,

No doubt, Just like you stated sometimes I also wonder if I belong to an "ordinary society". We have our share of disfunction. But guess what. If you've ever belonged to a Union you would understand this statement, Unions are just like that once famous hotel in California, you can check in but you can never check out.

I mean that literally. I can't legally NOT be a member, I can't get out, I can only attempt to make it better. I'm hoping RONR can make that happen and I need pros like you to help. I've read RONR twice front to back, I'm getting stronger. I'm organizing like minded Flight Attendants who BELIEVE in RONR

and what it can do, in fact I'm still looking for a parliamentarian to offer direct help to our forum of motionmakers.