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Recording votes in Minutes


Guest ms21502

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Can an individual or group of individuals request to have their names documented in the minutes as having voted yea or nay after a balloted vote???

OK, dumb question, of course they can request. The real question is can the request be denied?

It's sort of the other way around. Of course the request can be denied; that's the default situation (no names are recorded after a vote by ballot).

I'm assuming you are speaking of a secret ballot vote, which is now over, and certain individuals are requesting, after the fact, that their votes be recorded? Such a request should certainly not be granted simply because those members say they want their votes recorded. This is not information that should normally appear in the minutes after a vote by ballot. It is not part of the necessary record of what was done at the meeting, which is what the minutes are for, according to RONR.

The assembly could choose to grant the request, by majority vote. I'm pretty sure some regular posters on this forum would say it even requires two-thirds vote (suspending the rules on what is to be included in the minutes).

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Since there is no proof that the way a member says he voted is the way he actually voted, an after-the-fact request to have one's ballot vote recorded should be denied.

I agree that such requests may be denied (as far as the rules in RONR are concerned), but I do not think that this is a good reason for their denial.

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I agree that such requests may be denied (as far as the rules in RONR are concerned), but I do not think that this is a good reason for their denial.

I would be concerned about recording the inaccurate statement of how the member voted, especially after the fact.

The assembly also has a perfect right to be as capricious as it wishing in granting/denying this request (even though I, if a member, would tend to support granting it).

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Can an individual or group of individuals request to have their names documented in the minutes as having voted yea or nay after a balloted vote???

In my opinion, such a request is dilatory and out of order. The assembly, in effect, already decided this question when it adopted the motion or rule to take the vote by ballot, and the recording of the votes of the minority serves no legitimate parliamentary purpose, in the general case. It should be kept in mind that the society can adopt a rule empowering a small minority to order a roll call vote, if this seems opportune.

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In my opinion, such a request is dilatory and out of order.

... the recording of the votes of the minority serves no legitimate parliamentary purpose, in the general case.

Well, it is possible, even likely, that your state's corporations code may not consider it "dilatory."

In some states, to get a person's objection to a policy on record officially, for legal purposes (I assume, for some kind of indemnity), the state corporations code may specify that the person either (1.) write a letter to the corporation; or (2.) have the minutes record the objection of this person.

Since homeowners associations are usually controlled so, then you need not look any further than the rules which control you local HOA, for your best, most applicable, most local, example.

(Tip: The Secretary of State in your state might have the entire text of the state corporations code on-line already. You could download the relevant portion and do a word search via your word processor.)

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Well, it is possible, even likely, that your state's corporations code may not consider it "dilatory."

In some states, to get a person's objection to a policy on record officially, for legal purposes (I assume, for some kind of indemnity), the state corporations code may specify that the person either (1.) write a letter to the corporation; or (2.) have the minutes record the objection of this person.

Since homeowners associations are usually controlled so, then you need not look any further than the rules which control you local HOA, for your best, most applicable, most local, example.

(Tip: The Secretary of State in your state might have the entire text of the state corporations code on-line already. You could download the relevant portion and do a word search via your word processor.)

Needless to say, a society is obliged to comply with applicable laws and regulations, but this forum is for the discussion of the general parliamentary law embodied in RONR, 10th edition.

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Needless to say, a society is obliged to comply with applicable laws and regulations, but this forum is for the discussion of the general parliamentary law embodied in RONR, 10th edition.

I was merely responding your opinion, which was not based on parliamentary law:

In my opinion, such a request is dilatory and out of order.

Your opinion was that:

(a.) it is out of order.

(b.) it is dilatory.

You won't find text in RONR supporting those two opinions.

So, won't you agree that

"... this forum is for the discussion of the general parliamentary law embodied in RONR, 10th edition.?

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I was merely responding your opinion, which was not based on parliamentary law:

Your opinion was that:

(a.) it is out of order.

(b.) it is dilatory.

You won't find text in RONR supporting those two opinions.

So, won't you agree that

"... this forum is for the discussion of the general parliamentary law embodied in RONR, 10th edition.?

I strongly disagree, but we've been through this time and again, and I'm not going to bother again. The proper procedures for those who cannot move to Reconsider the vote are given in the book.

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It's an inaccurate statement only if the member is lying, and accusing him of doing so would be improper.

There's no need for name-calling. Simply point out the fact that, as ballot votes are secret, all that the minutes could record was that the member said he voted a certain way. No one is saying he didn't vote that way. It's just that, by the very definition of a ballot vote, there's no proof that he did.

It might seem strange that a member would want to be on record as voting one way when, in fact, he voted the other way, but it's not hard to imagine a person who voted against the winning candidate to want to go on record as having voted for him. Or vice versa.

One recalls the bumper stickers that say, "Don't Blame Me, I Voted For ________".

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It's an inaccurate statement only if the member is lying, and accusing him of doing so would be improper.

I do not be believe you can (or should) rewrite history.

If I cast the one "no" vote, easily seen by all in the assembly, I would not expect the assembly to grant my request that it be recorded as "yes." I do not believe that failing to grant that request accuses me of lying.

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If I cast the one "no" vote, easily seen by all in the assembly . . .

Except that in this scenario, the request to record the vote was made after the ballots were cast. So there's no suggestion that the secret ballot vote was "easily seen by all in the assembly".

It's like everyone saying, "I am Spartacus!".

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Except that in this scenario, the request to record the vote was made after the ballots were cast. So there's no suggestion that the secret ballot vote was "easily seen by all in the assembly".

It's like everyone saying, "I am Spartacus!".

This would be a situation where, if a member, I would vote not to grant the request. I would not say it is out of order, but I would not encourage it either.

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