Voting errors

[Tripple]

Our church is supposed to follow RR. At a recent election where 3/4 votes win it was announced that the man was elected. The actual vote count was not given. Due to much business, the secretery could not "do anything" until a month later when the day before our next regularly scheduled business meeting, she verified the count and dicovered the the man actually did not receive the required 75%. He only obtained 74.4% and so he did actually lose. Now, on the night of the voting apparently there were 2 members who came late and missed the election. Also, there were numerous "write in" votes cast for the man as preliminary results indicated the man lost, however after the "write in" votes were counted, he was repored to have won. I will also add that the man and his wife both voted (this is a paying job) along with the man's parents (personal and pecuniary interests). Our board (who wants this man hired) is throwing out the election and is having another election instead because they are saying errors were reported and people were given the wrong information. The 2 people who came late would have voted for the man, but were told they did not need to vote since he won. It was not an official who told the late arrivals there votes were not needed, but members of the audiance (if it makes a difference - an official did tell the members the man won who then told the late arrivals.) The board is presuming that a revote would have occurred and the man would have won. My question are, did he win or lose since actual numbers indicate he lost and time has passed? Are absentee ballots good for all elections during the night or are they only good for a one time vote - in other words, if a revote was taken, would the absentee ballots have counted? By the way, the meeting for the revote is tonight. Thanks in advance.

[Mr. J!]

This is an excellent example of why the results of a vote by ballot should always be given, including the numbers, to prevent honest mistakes. A point of order should have been made promptly when this was not done.

However, a timely point of order was not made. The vote is over.

The people who came in late and did not vote, for whatever reason, are not counted at all in the result. As to the impact of absentee votes, they are not permitted under RONR. If allowed, that would be under your own rules. If your rules do not provide for absentee voting, that would be a valid reason to make a point of order later. Check your bylaws.

[Robert B Fish]

.Read Official Interpretation 2006-.Read Official Interpretation 2006

Our church is supposed to follow RR. At a recent election where 3/4 votes win it was announced that the man was elected. The actual vote count was not given. Due to much business, the secretery could not "do anything" until a month later when the day before our next regularly scheduled business meeting, she verified the count and dicovered the the man actually did not receive the required 75%. He only obtained 74.4% and so he did actually lose. Now, on the night of the voting apparently there were 2 members who came late and missed the election. Also, there were numerous "write in" votes cast for the man as preliminary results indicated the man lost, however after the "write in" votes were counted, he was repored to have won. I will also add that the man and his wife both voted (this is a paying job) along with the man's parents (personal and pecuniary interests). Our board (who wants this man hired) is throwing out the election and is having another election instead because they are saying errors were reported and people were given the wrong information. The 2 people who came late would have voted for the man, but were told they did not need to vote since he won. It was not an official who told the late arrivals there votes were not needed, but members of the audiance (if it makes a difference - an official did tell the members the man won who then told the late arrivals.) The board is presuming that a revote would have occurred and the man would have won. My question are, did he win or lose since actual numbers indicate he lost and time has passed? Are absentee ballots good for all elections during the night or are they only good for a one time vote - in other words, if a revote was taken, would the absentee ballots have counted? By the way, the meeting for the revote is tonight. Thanks in advance.

Your post has so many issues that it would be difficult to address all of them clearly. Here are a few principles.

Read Official Interpretation 2006-11.

The use of absentee voting is not allowed unless your bylaws say that it is allowed. If so, you must follow those procedures.

Apparently you were voting by secret ballot. Once the polls closed, the two latecomers could not vote.

IMO, if a voter writes in the name of a candidate whose name appears elsewhere on the ballot, that counts as a valid vote for that candidate, just as if the block for the candidate were checked.

This is another good example of why you should always require the tellers to report the vote count at every use of secret ballot voting.

You use the term 'election' but I'm wondering if it was an election or a motion. If you require 3/4 to elect someone, you might end up never electing anyone.

-Bob

[Gary c Tesser]

I think I agree with Mr Fish, and not with Mr J. I'll also recommend OI #18.

And I think that if the organization has not closed (like a convention that adjourns ad fine-e, or something else French), then the election might not be final (part of my disagreement with Mr J), especially if valid write-in votes were not counted.

[Rob Elsman]

Our church is supposed to follow RR. At a recent election where 3/4 votes win it was announced that the man was elected. The actual vote count was not given. Due to much business, the secretery could not "do anything" until a month later when the day before our next regularly scheduled business meeting, she verified the count and dicovered the the man actually did not receive the required 75%. He only obtained 74.4% and so he did actually lose. Now, on the night of the voting apparently there were 2 members who came late and missed the election. Also, there were numerous "write in" votes cast for the man as preliminary results indicated the man lost, however after the "write in" votes were counted, he was repored to have won. I will also add that the man and his wife both voted (this is a paying job) along with the man's parents (personal and pecuniary interests). Our board (who wants this man hired) is throwing out the election and is having another election instead because they are saying errors were reported and people were given the wrong information. The 2 people who came late would have voted for the man, but were told they did not need to vote since he won. It was not an official who told the late arrivals there votes were not needed, but members of the audiance (if it makes a difference - an official did tell the members the man won who then told the late arrivals.) The board is presuming that a revote would have occurred and the man would have won. My question are, did he win or lose since actual numbers indicate he lost and time has passed? Are absentee ballots good for all elections during the night or are they only good for a one time vote - in other words, if a revote was taken, would the absentee ballots have counted? By the way, the meeting for the revote is tonight. Thanks in advance.

The board has no authority to pass judgment on the actions of the general congregation assembly. The board needs to confine itself to the powers vested in it and remain uninvolved in this controversy.

Apparently, the ballots were not securely preserved, since the secretary has been snooping through them without the general congregation's authority. I am inclined to think that this vote is over, and whatever problems there might have been are now water under the bridge. Whoever was announced as the winner at the general congregation meeting has, in fact, won.