discipline for directors

[Guest James C]

Recently my board had a very important executive session. As chair I have talked several times to the board about the importance of confidentiality of these sessions. The day after the executive session I was told that confidentiality was breached.

I have looked through the discipline procedures on 624 - 643 and I understand the process and we will likely create an investigative committee but my question is what can this committee recommend? Is there a limit on the recommendations? Can they for example recommend that the individual not be allowed in further executive sessions?

Thanks!

[David A Foulkes]

Recently my board had a very important executive session. As chair I have talked several times to the board about the importance of confidentiality of these sessions. The day after the executive session I was told that confidentiality was breached.

I have looked through the discipline procedures on 624 - 643 and I understand the process and we will likely create an investigative committee but my question is what can this committee recommend? Is there a limit on the recommendations? Can they for example recommend that the individual not be allowed in further executive sessions?

Thanks!

"Punishments that a society can impose generally fall under the headings of reprimand, fine (if authorized in the bylaws), suspension, or explusion." (RONR 10th Ed. p. 624 l. 20ff)

Whether you can do otherwise (more or less), I can't tell you, though others might, so check back.

[Gary Novosielski]

Recently my board had a very important executive session. As chair I have talked several times to the board about the importance of confidentiality of these sessions. The day after the executive session I was told that confidentiality was breached.

I have looked through the discipline procedures on 624 - 643 and I understand the process and we will likely create an investigative committee but my question is what can this committee recommend? Is there a limit on the recommendations? Can they for example recommend that the individual not be allowed in further executive sessions?

Thanks!

If it's serious enough to remove them from executive session, you might be better advised to remove them from office completely, assuming you can. Removing someone only from executive session would be problematic. If not being allowed in executive session would interfere with their ability to perform the duties of a board member, or with your ability to obtain a quorum in executive session, you might regret that choice.

Make sure you're punishing the offender, and not yourselves.

But ultimately it's up to you (and your bylaws).

[Rob Elsman]

Recently my board had a very important executive session. As chair I have talked several times to the board about the importance of confidentiality of these sessions. The day after the executive session I was told that confidentiality was breached.

I have looked through the discipline procedures on 624 - 643 and I understand the process and we will likely create an investigative committee but my question is what can this committee recommend? Is there a limit on the recommendations? Can they for example recommend that the individual not be allowed in further executive sessions?

Thanks!

Can they for example recommend that the individual not be allowed in further executive sessions?

No. This infringes on the freedom of future sessions of the board.

[Josh Martin]

I have looked through the discipline procedures on 624 - 643 and I understand the process and we will likely create an investigative committee but my question is what can this committee recommend? Is there a limit on the recommendations? Can they for example recommend that the individual not be allowed in further executive sessions?

Under RONR, the upper limit is expulsion from the society. It would seem to me that a suspension from the right to attend meetings held in executive session would be in order, although I agree with Mr. Novosielski that this seems like a pretty light punishment for breaching the confidentiality of executive session.

"Punishments that a society can impose generally fall under the headings of reprimand, fine (if authorized in the bylaws), suspension, or explusion." (RONR 10th Ed. p. 624 l. 20ff)

Whether you can do otherwise (more or less), I can't tell you, though others might, so check back.

Much like the last time, I'm puzzled as to what "otherwise" you have in mind. So long as one remembers that "suspension" does not have to be all-or-nothing, it seems to me those four headings pretty much cover it.

No. This infringes on the freedom of future sessions of the board.

How so? A suspension can be rescinded.

[Rob Elsman]

Under RONR, the upper limit is expulsion from the society. It would seem to me that a suspension from the right to attend meetings held in executive session would be in order, although I agree with Mr. Novosielski that this seems like a pretty light punishment for breaching the confidentiality of executive session.

Much like the last time, I'm puzzled as to what "otherwise" you have in mind. So long as one remembers that "suspension" does not have to be all-or-nothing, it seems to me those four headings pretty much cover it.

How so? A suspension can be rescinded.

Each session has the freedom to decide for itself by majority vote without notice which members' right to attend a meeting (or a part thereof) is in suspense, unless the bylaws provide for a punishment that perdures for more than the one session at which it is inflicted. See RONR (10th ed.), p. 85, ll. 14-29.

[Josh Martin]

Each session has the freedom to decide for itself by majority vote without notice which members' right to attend a meeting (or a part thereof) is in suspense, unless the bylaws provide for a punishment that perdures for more than the one session at which it is inflicted. See RONR (10th ed.), p. 85, ll. 14-29.

Since the original poster was talking about an investigative committee it seems to me he's talking more about the latter part of Ch. XX, with a formal trial, at the conclusion of which the society would impose a penalty, which could include a suspension of part (or all) of the member's rights for a defined period of time. This would, of course, need to be conducted by the general membership, not the board, unless the Bylaws give the board the authority to discipline its own members.

Certainly I agree that if the board is to impose punishment (without some grant of authority by the Bylaws), the worst it could do would be to remove the member from the meeting hall for the duration of a single session.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

What can this committee recommend? Is there a limit on the recommendations?

Can they for example recommend that the individual not be allowed in further executive sessions?

A committee is powerless. - All a committee can do is RECOMMEND ACTION.

A committee takes no action, unless the superior body who authorized the committee (or a bylaw, or an adopted motion) says otherwise.

For a committee on discipline, per Chapter XX, the committee will recommend a trial or no trial. And that pretty much is as DEEP an action which a committee can go.

It goes without saying that (I hope) the committee has DATA, i.e., a REPORT, backing up all its recommendations.

[Josh Martin]

A committee is powerless. - All a committee can do is RECOMMEND ACTION.

A committee takes no action, unless the superior body who authorized the committee (or a bylaw, or an adopted motion) says otherwise.

For a committee on discipline, per Chapter XX, the committee will recommend a trial or no trial. And that pretty much is as DEEP an action which a committee can go.

It goes without saying that (I hope) the committee has DATA, i.e., a REPORT, backing up all its recommendations.

The resolution from the investigative committee on RONR, 10th ed., pg. 634, lines 6-27 does indeed recommend a trial, but it also prefers charges and specifications, and it seems to at least suggest a penalty as well, since Mr. N is supposed to "show cause why he should not be expelled from the Society."

[David A Foulkes]

Whether you can do otherwise (more or less), I can't tell you, though others might, so check back.

Much like the last time, I'm puzzled as to what "otherwise" you have in mind. So long as one remembers that "suspension" does not have to be all-or-nothing, it seems to me those four headings pretty much cover it.

The original question was could the member's right to attend executive sessions be suspended, leaving intact his right to attend meetings not held in executive session.

When a student is suspended from school for causing trouble in History class, typically that means he can not attend all classes, not just History class. So, you're saying that could be the case? If a member regularly conducts himself improperly during debate, but does not make dilatory motions nor votes improperly, could his "suspension" be limited then to not participating in debate? That is, could one of his rights of membership be suspended, leaving all others intact?

[hmtcastle]

That is, could one of his rights of membership be suspended, leaving all others intact?

I think that's just what Mr. Martin is saying when he notes "that "suspension" does not have to be all-or-nothing".

[Rob Elsman]

Since the original poster was talking about an investigative committee it seems to me he's talking more about the latter part of Ch. XX, with a formal trial, at the conclusion of which the society would impose a penalty, which could include a suspension of part (or all) of the member's rights for a defined period of time. This would, of course, need to be conducted by the general membership, not the board, unless the Bylaws give the board the authority to discipline its own members.

Certainly I agree that if the board is to impose punishment (without some grant of authority by the Bylaws), the worst it could do would be to remove the member from the meeting hall for the duration of a single session.

Absent some specific provision for it in the bylaws, a motion proposing the infliction, as a punishment arising out of a disciplinary action, of a suspension of a basic right of an individual member for a period of time exceeding the adjournment of the current session is out of order, whether or not a trial is held. Again, this has to do with the freedom of each session.

[Josh Martin]

So, you're saying that could be the case? If a member regularly conducts himself improperly during debate, but does not make dilatory motions nor votes improperly, could his "suspension" be limited then to not participating in debate? That is, could one of his rights of membership be suspended, leaving all others intact?

Yes.

Absent some specific provision for it in the bylaws, a motion proposing the infliction, as a punishment arising out of a disciplinary action, of a suspension of a basic right of an individual member for a period of time exceeding the adjournment of the current session is out of order, whether or not a trial is held. Again, this has to do with the freedom of each session.

If true, this would seem to be quite odd, as it would leave a large gap in the spectrum of punishment between "suspension of all rights for one session" and "expulsion." Unfortunately, the text is not clear on how the general rule of the freedom of each session applies to disciplinary procedures.