Presidents' motion vote

[Guest G_BENOIT]

I was wondering if you have a BOD (Board of directors) of 9 people and someone brings something up and the president ask everyone what they think. If only 4 people agree to it and you need 5 of those people to pass it, can the President be that 5th vote? They way I understand it is THEY CAN NOT VOTE...am I wornge, and if I am not wornge, can you tell me what addition and page of Roberts rules it is on if you know. It would me the world to be right. Thank you

[Kim Goldsworthy]

I was wondering if you have a BOD (Board of directors) of 9 people and someone brings something up and the president ask everyone what they think. If only 4 people agree to it and you need 5 of those people to pass it, can the President be that 5th vote? They way I understand it is THEY CAN NOT VOTE...am I wornge, and if I am not wornge, can you tell me what addition and page of Roberts rules it is on if you know. It would me the world to be right. Thank you

That's a pretty loosey-goosey description.

I have doubts that it fits "parliamentary procedure" because I see no motion, and no voting.

(... brings something up ... what do they think ...")

Thus, let's start at the beginning and establish a base line.

Q. What makes you suspect that you need 5 votes? (You don't need 5 votes if Robert's Rules of Order applies).

Q. What makes you suspect that your president cannot vote. (A president can vote if Robert's Rules of Order applies.)

[hmtcastle]

can the President be that 5th vote?

Yes. The rules are "relaxed" at meetings of "small" boards where not more than about a dozen members are present.

See also FAQ #1.

[Guest G_BENOIT]

Q. What makes you suspect that you need 5 votes? (You don't need 5 votes if Robert's Rules of Order applies).

A: For the last 28 years (when the organization was created) it was stated that you need 5 votes from the BOD to pass something (b/c there are 9 BOD's, you would need 5 b/c that would be more then half...PLEASE don't take that as a smart ass). it has been that way for ever.

Q. What makes you suspect that your president cannot vote. (A president can vote if Robert's Rules of Order applies.)

A: because that is what the BOD of the organization has been doing since it was created.

They follow some of Roberts Rules but not all.

[David A Foulkes]

I was wondering if you have a BOD (Board of directors) of 9 people and someone brings something up and the president ask everyone what they think. If only 4 people agree to it and you need 5 of those people to pass it, can the President be that 5th vote? They way I understand it is THEY CAN NOT VOTE...am I wornge, and if I am not wornge, can you tell me what addition and page of Roberts rules it is on if you know. It would me the world to be right. Thank you

As noted, in "small board" meetings (of about a dozen or fewer in attendance), the rules are "relaxed" allowing the Chair to participate more. Subject to rule or custom, he may also make motions as well as vote. The assumption here is your president is the chairman as well. Now, you seem to have a "custom" of the chairman/president not voting, so that does carry some weight. RONR (10th Ed.) page 470 line 17 - page 471 line 11

Further assuming that, of the 9 board members, the other 4 were not favorable to the "something" that was brought up, and further assuming there was somewhat of a motion involved -- although the chair can call for a vote without a motion being introduced, if the proposed "question" is perfectly clear to all present -- this creates a tie, and the Chair can vote (in instances where his vote will affect the result). RONR (10th Ed.) page 470 line 33 through page 471 line 4. Also, page 392 line 18 and continuing. Of course, your "custom" of the president/chair not voting plays in here a bit, too.

In general, at meetings of more than about a dozen (typically membership or large board meetings) the chair does not vote except when voting is by ballot or if his vote will affect the result. It's not that he CAN NOT VOTE, but should not so as to maintain an air of impartiality. But he always has the right to vote, unless your rules say otherwise.

So, barring anything in your bylaws or other governing documents, you are .... well, not right. Except for that "custom" of yours.

As for needing 5 votes, I'd assume you think that because 5 would be a majority of the 9 members. But voting is generally counted as a majority of the votes cast. So, of the 9 members, if 2 abstain (do not vote), then the votes cast total 7, and a majority would be 4. So it can vary.

[Josh Martin]

Now, you seem to have a "custom" of the chairman/president not voting, so that does carry some weight.

We should be clear, however, that a custom would not be sufficient to deprive the chair of the right to vote. I don't believe you meant to imply otherwise, but I thought that was worth stating explicitly.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

...

... A: For the last 28 years (when the organization was created) it was stated that ...

... it has been that way for ever.

...

... A: because that is what the BOD of the organization has been doing since it was created.

...

... They follow some of Roberts Rules but not all.

Okay.

It is even more loosey-goosey than I imagined.

So, you've got yourself an organization where they do things "that way" out of ignorance or inertia.

And you want know whether there is a rule in Robert's Rules of Order which will apply to an organization which does not recognize Robert's Rules of Order.

We could tell you.

But what good would it do? - It isn't part of your 28 year history. So our correct advice will be ignored.

After 28 years of ignorance or inertia, you'll need more than a single person (yourself) to sell the organization on the fancy concept of "following rules."

And there is no silver bullet for that.

And no Maxwell's Silver Hammer, either. Though I am tempted!

[David A Foulkes]

We should be clear, however, that a custom would not be sufficient to deprive the chair of the right to vote. I don't believe you meant to imply otherwise, but I thought that was worth stating explicitly.

The point is well taken. Thanks.

[David A Foulkes]

After 28 years of ignorance or inertia, you'll need more than a single person (yourself) to sell the organization on the fancy concept of "following rules."

To the contrary, I suggest this is exactly what is needed - the Norma Rae moment - though I'm not sure G_Benoit is that one, based on my interpretation of the second to last sentence in the original post.

[Tim Wynn]

I was wondering if you have a BOD (Board of directors) of 9 people and someone brings something up and the president ask everyone what they think. If only 4 people agree to it and you need 5 of those people to pass it, can the President be that 5th vote? They way I understand it is THEY CAN NOT VOTE...am I wornge, and if I am not wornge, can you tell me what addition and page of Roberts rules it is on if you know. It would me the world to be right. Thank you

See RONR(10th ad.), p. 392-393.

Also, see RONR(10th ad.), p. 471, l. 7-11.

[Gary Novosielski]

See RONR(10th ad.), p. 392-393.

Also, see RONR(10th ad.), p. 471, l. 7-11.

Wow, they're taking ads now? <sigh> How times have changed.

[hmtcastle]

Wow, they're taking ads now? <sigh> How times have changed.

Wait'll you see the 11th Edition. I'm not sayin' there'll be pictures but I'm not sayin' there won't.

[David A Foulkes]

Wait'll you see the 11th Edition. I'm not sayin' there'll be pictures but I'm not sayin' there won't.

Maybe an appearance by The Gecko???