Relaxed Form of Robert's & Declaring Business Null & Void

[Guest Pam Duffy]

Although our by-laws have been in place since 2/10, our Chair is now saying they are a "relaxed form" of Robert's Rules of Order. There is no mention of this in our by-laws and this is the first time it has been mentioned.

Is there such a thing as a "relaxed form" of Robert's?

My other question pertains to the proper procedure to declare past business null and void before our membership on the basis they were not in accordance with our by-laws?

Thank you so much.

[Rob Elsman]

Although our by-laws have been in place since 2/10, our Chair is now saying they are a "relaxed form" of Robert's Rules of Order. There is no mention of this in our by-laws and this is the first time it has been mentioned.

Is there such a thing as a "relaxed form" of Robert's?

My other question pertains to the proper procedure to declare past business null and void before our membership on the basis they were not in accordance with our by-laws?

Thank you so much.

The "relaxed form" is used when the chair has no idea what is the proper procedure. In informal terms, it's called "winging it".

[George Mervosh]

The "relaxed form" is used when the chair has no idea what is the proper procedure. In informal terms, it's called "winging it".

Or, the "relaxed" rules in small boards that are found on pp. 470-471......

[hmtcastle]

Is there such a thing as a "relaxed form" of Robert's?

A few procedural rules are "relaxed" at board meetings where not more than about a dozen board members are present. For example, seconds are not required.

As for ruling a past action null and void, it depends on what particular bylaw was violated. If it was purely procedural, it's probably too late.

[Gary Novosielski]

Although our by-laws have been in place since 2/10, our Chair is now saying they are a "relaxed form" of Robert's Rules of Order. There is no mention of this in our by-laws and this is the first time it has been mentioned.

Is there such a thing as a "relaxed form" of Robert's?

My other question pertains to the proper procedure to declare past business null and void before our membership on the basis they were not in accordance with our by-laws?

Thank you so much.

There are two things he might be referring to, but it's equally likely he's just wrong. On of them might be small boards which have somewhat less-formal rules for discussion than large assemblies. No seconding of motions needed, no standing/sitting exercises, the president can make motions and vote, and things like that.

The other is something called Unanimous Consent, which means that as long as there is no objection, motions can be made, passed, and rules bent to one degree or another, all on one sentence, using the magic words "if there is no objection". It's only used when everyone already agrees with what's going on, or at least is content not to fight the inevitable. But if there is objection, even one lone voice, all the rules snap right back to their formal form whether the chair likes it or not.

On your second question, the procedure, whenever you think the rules are not being followed, is to raise a Point of Order and if you don't think the ruling on that is correct, Appeal from the Decision of the Chair.

If you don't do that in a timely manner (right then) you will probably lose the ability to complain about it later, depending heavily on exactly which rule was broken.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

Although our by-laws have been in place since 2/10, our Chair is now saying they are a "relaxed form" of Robert's Rules of Order. There is no mention of this in our by-laws and this is the first time it has been mentioned.

Is there such a thing as a "relaxed form" of Robert's?

Yes.

See pages 470-471.

PROCEDURE IN SMALL BOARDS. In a board

meeting where there are not more than about a dozen

members present, some of the formality that is necessary in

a large assembly would hinder business. The rules govern-

ing such meetings are different from the rules that hold in

other assemblies, in the following respects:

* Members are not required to obtain the floor before

making motions or speaking, which they can do while

seated.

* Motions need not be seconded.

* There is no limit to the number of times a member can

speak to a question, and motions to close or limit de-

bate (15, 16) generally should not be entertained.

* Informal discussion of a subject is permitted while no

motion is pending.

* Sometimes, when a proposal is perfectly clear to all pres-

ent, a vote can be taken without a motion’s having been

introduced. Unless agreed to by unanimous consent,

however, all proposed actions of a board must be ap-

proved by vote under the same rules as in other assem-

blies, except that a vote can be taken initially by a show of

hands, which is often a better method in such meetings.

* The chairman need not rise while putting questions to

vote.

* The chairman can speak in discussion without rising or

leaving the chair; and, subject to rule or custom within

the particular board (which should be uniformly followed

regardless of how many members are present), he usually

can make motions and usually votes on all questions.

My other question pertains to the proper procedure to declare past business null and void before our membership on the basis they were not in accordance with our by-laws?

Beware. Just because X is not in accordance with your bylaws does not necessarily mean that X is null and void.

There could be countless instances where the bylaws are violated but the net effect is no penalty at all.

With that said, the proper form is to use a POINT OF ORDER.

After the POINT OF ORDER, then is possible that you may have available to you the motion APPEAL FROM THE DECISION OF THE CHAIR.

See RONR for the particulars - what, when, how, why.

[David A Foulkes]

I was thinking if Levi's Jeans put out a version, there might be "relaxed fit" (playing it loose, also small boards), "straight leg" (playing it by The Book), "boot cut" (for those dictatorial types), "501" (for non-profits), and "stone washed" (like, you know, man).

[Guest Pam Duffy]

There are two things he might be referring to, but it's equally likely he's just wrong. On of them might be small boards which have somewhat less-formal rules for discussion than large assemblies. No seconding of motions needed, no standing/sitting exercises, the president can make motions and vote, and things like that.

The other is something called Unanimous Consent, which means that as long as there is no objection, motions can be made, passed, and rules bent to one degree or another, all on one sentence, using the magic words "if there is no objection". It's only used when everyone already agrees with what's going on, or at least is content not to fight the inevitable. But if there is objection, even one lone voice, all the rules snap right back to their formal form whether the chair likes it or not.

On your second question, the procedure, whenever you think the rules are not being followed, is to raise a Point of Order and if you don't think the ruling on that is correct, Appeal from the Decision of the Chair.

If you don't do that in a timely manner (right then) you will probably lose the ability to complain about it later, depending heavily on exactly which rule was broken.

Here is the dilemma, Gary. The Chair called an on-line (email) Board meeting for 11-13-10, but Board meetings by email are not specified in our by-laws. The result of that Board meeting was that a $200 expenditure was authorized from our treasury. I called a point of order prior to the authorization, but as Board meetings are prohibited by our by-laws, I was advised by this forum that I could not do so and withdrew the point of order. I did make the Chair aware of the fact Board meetings by email were not authorized in our by-laws, but he choose to ignore the fact.

Another problem with the 11-13-10 Board meeting is that two of the Board members, who voted in favor of the $200 expenditure, did not include the entire Board in the email annotating their votes. Also, when the Chair determined the motion had been carried and the $200 expenditure authorized he did not include the entire Board in his email.

Subsequent to this meeting, the Chair prepared his own minutes although the Secretary did participate in the on-line meeting. Our by-laws specifically state the Secretary is to keep the minutes of all meetings.

So, I am at a loss as to what I can do now.

Thank you.

[Josh Martin]

The Chair called an on-line (email) Board meeting for 11-13-10, but Board meetings by email are not specified in our by-laws.

That's a little too relaxed. This would cause a continuing breach.

Subsequent to this meeting, the Chair prepared his own minutes although the Secretary did participate in the on-line meeting. Our by-laws specifically state the Secretary is to keep the minutes of all meetings.

Yeah, compared to conducting business by e-mail and not notifying all board members, this isn't that big a deal.

So, I am at a loss as to what I can do now.

Raise a Point of Order at the next real meeting, and possibly take disciplinary action against those responsible. See FAQ #20.