Changing meeting dates b/c of schedule conflict

[Guest Guest_WA]

We are a new org. and have adapted ROO to our bylaws. Recently our group was invited to attend a community event that would allow members to speak to the community about our club and what it can offer the youth in the community. It was between committee meetings. I forwarded all the information to the Committee Chair and got no response. I decided to bring it up at our Youth meeting where all but 2 committee members were present.

Our bylaws state that the committee meetings are to be held on a certain day and time. In order to attend the event we would have to change the meeting day and time. When the youth meeting came to our Business items for parents I brought up the invitation and asked if we would like to vote on the whether or not to participate. And to change the time and date of the committee meeting. Both votes yielded unanimous to yes. Attend the event. Change the date. All attending members agreed to the changes.

When an email went out to the 2 committee members that didn't attend one was saying that we cannot amend the bylaws in that way, and that a certain precedent needs to happen. Were we out of line to vote? And what needs to happen to correct it so we can do it properly?

Thanks!

[Kim Goldsworthy]

Recently our group was invited to attend a community event that would allow members to speak to the community about our club and what it can offer the youth in the community.

It was between committee meetings.

I forwarded all the information to the Committee Chair and got no response.

I decided to bring it up at our Youth meeting where all but 2 committee members were present.

Our bylaws state that the committee meetings are to be held on a certain day and time.

In order to attend the event we would have to change the meeting day and time.

When the youth meeting came to our Business items for parents I brought up the invitation and asked if we would like to vote on the whether or not to participate.

And to change the time and date of the committee meeting.

Both votes yielded unanimous to yes.

Attend the event.

Change the date.

All attending members agreed to the changes.

When an email went out to the 2 committee members that didn't attend one was saying that we cannot amend the bylaws in that way, and that a certain precedent needs to happen.

Were we out of line to vote?

And what needs to happen to correct it so we can do it properly?

Did a committee vote to amend the bylaws?

That is surely impossible. -- A single committee cannot amend bylaws.

Since you apparently did all this "voting" at a public event, and NOT inside a properly called committee meeting, then nothing you voted on is valid.

[Gary Novosielski]

Our bylaws state that the committee meetings are to be held on a certain day and time. In order to attend the event we would have to change the meeting day and time. When the youth meeting came to our Business items for parents I brought up the invitation and asked if we would like to vote on the whether or not to participate. And to change the time and date of the committee meeting. Both votes yielded unanimous to yes. Attend the event. Change the date. All attending members agreed to the changes.

...

When an email went out to the 2 committee members that didn't attend one was saying that we cannot amend the bylaws in that way, and that a certain precedent needs to happen. Were we out of line to vote? And what needs to happen to correct it so we can do it properly?

Thanks!

Yes, you were completely out of line. Committees do not have the power to change the bylaws. If they bylaws say your committee meets at a certain date and time, then that's when you meet. Period. Unless and until the bylaws are changed the right way, which you can find out about by looking in the bylaws.

Good grief!

[hmtcastle]

Were we out of line to vote? And what needs to happen to correct it so we can do it properly?

As noted, you can't cancel, or postpone, a scheduled meeting. But what you can do is meet on the assigned date and adjourn the meeting to a later, more convenient date. The adjourned meeting will be a continuation of the first meeting. Only one or two members have to show up at the first meeting.

[Guest gnikco]

You are all missing the point. The vote was conducted during a business meeting with the members of the club present, including committee members. As long as a majority vote was received and there is no rule in your by-laws on how you are to amend the rules (most small clubs don't contain them), then the vote for the change is valid.

What you can't do is have a "secret" meeting to create a situation where a minority group is excluded to swing votes in your favor. As long as all members are aware of the new meeting time and agree to attend, you are not violating any rules. Ever here of an emergency or special session of Congress? This is no different.

Read Rule 68. The first sentence should clear things up.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

You are all missing the point.

...

Read Rule 68. The first sentence should clear things up.

Holy cow!

There is no "Rule 68" in RONR tenth edition (2000).

What are you talking about?

[hmtcastle]

You are all missing the point.

Not exactly an auspicious beginning.

As long as a majority vote was received and there is no rule in your by-laws on how you are to amend the rules (most small clubs don't contain them), then the vote for the change is valid.

Not as far as RONR is concerned. And RONR is what we're concerned with here.

Ever here of an emergency or special session of Congress? This is no different.

Actually, this is different. The problem is not in the calling of a special meeting. The problem is in cancelling (or rescheduling) a properly scheduled meeting.

Read Rule 68. The first sentence should clear things up.

I doubt it, since there is no "Rule 68" in the current, 10th, edition of RONR.

[Chris Harrison]

You are all missing the point. The vote was conducted during a business meeting with the members of the club present, including committee members. As long as a majority vote was received and there is no rule in your by-laws on how you are to amend the rules (most small clubs don't contain them), then the vote for the change is valid.

Not true. Assuming that there is no amendment provision in the bylaws you would still need a 2/3 vote if notice was given and a majority vote of the entire membership would be required if notice wasn't given. RONR p. 296 says:

If the bylaws or governing instrument contains no provision relating to amendment, a motion to rescind or amend applied to a constitution or to bylaws is subject to the same voting requirement as to rescind or amend special rules of order - that is, it requires [a] previous notice as described above and a two-thirds vote or a vote of a majority of the entire membership.

[Josh Martin]

The vote was conducted during a business meeting with the members of the club present, including committee members.

That is not entirely clear to me from the original post. The poster said it was brought up at the "Youth meeting." This may be referring to a committee.

As long as a majority vote was received and there is no rule in your by-laws on how you are to amend the rules (most small clubs don't contain them), then the vote for the change is valid.

If the Bylaws are silent on the method of amendment, the default is that an amendment to the Bylaws requires a 2/3 vote or a vote of a majority of the entire membership. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 573, lines 31-36) Additionally, it is my experience that most societies (even small ones) do have provisions as to how the Bylaws may be amended. If they don't, they should be amended ASAP to add such provisions.

As long as all members are aware of the new meeting time and agree to attend, you are not violating any rules.

Except for the rule in the Bylaws that says the meetings shall be held on a certain date.

Ever here of an emergency or special session of Congress? This is no different.

No, that would be a special meeting, which can only be called if provided for in the organization's Bylaws. The date proscribed for regular meetings in the Bylaws can only be changed by properly amending the Bylaws.

It seems to me that the simplest proper course of action here, since this is a one-time thing, would be for the committee to meet at the prescribed date and time and then set up an adjourned meeting at the time, date, and place of the community event.

Read Rule 68. The first sentence should clear things up.

I assume you are referring to Section 68 of Robert's Rules of Order, Revised, 4th edition. The first problem is that this text was written in 1915, so it is somewhat out of date. More importantly, the full sentence reads as follows: "Constitutions, by-laws, and rules of order, that have been adopted and contain no rule for their amendment, may be amended at any regular business meeting by a vote of the majority of the entire membership; or, if the amendment was submitted in writing at the previous regular business meeting, then they may be amended by a two-thirds vote of those voting, a quorum being present."

[Guest Guest_WA]

Wow. I'm kinda not sure what to say. We're a small group. Parents=committee. The chartered organization we're running under has completely left us in the dark (literally! They've locked us out of their club house when we were told by those members we can hold our meetings there...twice...) Our committee/parents created the above bylaws. Which have not yet been approved (voting would take place at this month committee meeting). The invite was given to us last minute between the committee meetings. I presented it to the Committee Chair immediately. He didn't respond to my email. So I decided to bring it up when the committee/parents would be present again, at the youth meeting.

Thus the post. I was seeking clarification.

Thank you gnikco for "getting" it.

And Josh for providing the suggestion. It's actually what was proposed via email about an hour ago.

[Guest Guest_WA]

TY to MountCastle too.

[Guest gnikco]

I was referencing an older version. I apologize for sounding harsh with my opening comment.

Based on the newer information provided, it looks like we are discussing a committee for a Cub Scout pack or a Boy Scout troop. And, if you are talking about the "youth" meeting, I think you are referring to a "Pack meeting" which contains the membership and is a forum for discussing club business. Based on that, as long as there was a majority vote, I think you are still in the clear.

I think you can add a provision in the by-laws to suspend a rule. Maybe you need to amend the by-laws to provide the ability to suspend the meeting except in situations where individuals may be adversely impacted such as elections.

[Josh Martin]

Based on that, as long as there was a majority vote, I think you are still in the clear.

Only if the vote was a majority of the entire membership.

I think you can add a provision in the by-laws to suspend a rule.

Yes, this would be acceptable.

[Trina]

...

Based on the newer information provided, it looks like we are discussing a committee for a Cub Scout pack or a Boy Scout troop. And, if you are talking about the "youth" meeting, I think you are referring to a "Pack meeting" which contains the membership and is a forum for discussing club business

....

I must say, this sounds nothing like the cub scout pack meetings I bring my son to -- the pack meeting is in no way, shape, or form a business meeting, and the parents of scouts aren't voting members of anything either. Of course, the original poster never said anything to suggest that his/her question had any connection with BSA, so I guess I'm criticizing an irrelevant inaccuracy .