Verbal reports put into the minutes

[Guest Jim]

Our board has written reports that are handed out for our board meetings. If there are questions fine, otherwise they are accepted and put into the secretary's file. A member decided to give the report verbally, so the secretary (me) would need to write it down to then put into the file. I told her that the report needed to be written ahead of the meeting. She insists she can give verbal reports that I would then have to put into the minutes. Help!

[Josh Martin]

Our board has written reports that are handed out for our board meetings. If there are questions fine, otherwise they are accepted and put into the secretary's file. A member decided to give the report verbally, so the secretary (me) would need to write it down to then put into the file. I told her that the report needed to be written ahead of the meeting. She insists she can give verbal reports that I would then have to put into the minutes. Help!

Reports generally must be in written form, but there are some instances in which a brief report may be given orally in a small assembly. In such cases, the Secretary must record the report in the minutes. (RONR, 10th ed., pg. 493, lines 28-35) These instances are detailed in RONR, 10th ed., pg. 508, line 23 - pg. 510, line 2. From the facts provided, this appears to be a report for information only, and this is not one of the types of reports which may be given orally.

So the member is partially right but the rule in question has more narrow application than she is suggesting.

[Guest Jim]

Thank you so much. It clearly was informational only.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

Our board has written reports that are handed out for our board meetings.

If there are questions fine, otherwise they are accepted and put into the secretary's file.

A member decided to give the report verbally, so the secretary (me) would need to write it down to then put into the file.

I told her that the report needed to be written ahead of the meeting.

She insists she can give verbal reports that I would then have to put into the minutes.

Here is what The Book says.

[excerpt, page 493.]

GENERAL FORM OF COMMITTEE REPORTS.

All committee reports should in general be submitted in

writing, except as noted (for particular types of brief reports

in a small assembly) on pages 508-10. In the case of such

exceptions, a report can be given orally only if it is brief

enough that the secretary can record its complete substance

in the minutes on hearing it given--which he must do if no

written copy is submitted for file.

So, the question is, can you, is the report brief enough?

If not, then the committee member must, by rule, PUT IT IN WRITING, as the rule in Robert's Rules won't apply to reports which are not brief enough to "record its substance" upon "hearing it [once]".

BONUS QUESTION

Q. What is "substance" to Robert's Rules of Order?

See the sample minutes in RONR (10th ed. 2000), page 455.

The Treasurer reported the receipt of a bill from

the Downs Construction Company in the amount of

$5,000 for the improvements recently made in the So-

ciety’s building. The question put by the chair “that

the bill be paid” was adopted.

Mr. Johnson, reporting on behalf of the Member-

ship Committee, moved “that John R. Brown be ad-

mitted to membership in the Society.” The motion

was adopted after debate.

The report of the Program Committee was re-

ceived and placed on file.

The special committee that was appointed to inves-

tigate and report on suitable parking facilities near the

Society’s building reported, through its chairman,

Mrs. Smith, a resolution, which, after debate and

amendment, was adopted as follows: “Resolved, That

... [its exact words immediately before being acted

upon, incorporating all amendments].”

THAT is what RONR considers "substance".

Q. Is that what your committee member had in mind?

[Guest Jim]

Thank you. It was not able to be written down with one hearing.

[Gary Novosielski]

Our board has written reports that are handed out for our board meetings. If there are questions fine, otherwise they are accepted and put into the secretary's file. A member decided to give the report verbally, so the secretary (me) would need to write it down to then put into the file. I told her that the report needed to be written ahead of the meeting. She insists she can give verbal reports that I would then have to put into the minutes. Help!

One word of caution: The use of the word "accepted" can be dangerous--especially if you make the mistake of passing a Motion to "accept" the report.

(Yes, reports should be received and filed, but not included in the minutes. Whether written or oral, the minutes would only say "The report of the Membership Committee was received/heard," and would not contain the text of the report itself.) If a member wants their report to be filed, it is up to them to put it in writing.

But here's the problem: a report that has been officially "accepted" (by a motion to accept) is deemed to be agreed to in every particular as the position of the assembly as a whole, effectively adopting every recommendation included in the report as if it had been moved and passed individually. That's usually not what people intend when they say a report is "accepted", but that's what RONR means.

So, if you mean "received," get everybody in the habit of saying that, instead.

[George Mervosh]

So, if you mean "received," get everybody in the habit of saying that, instead.

Or not.

"A common error is to move that a report "be received" after it has been read - apparently on the supposition that such a motion is necessary in order for the report to be taken under consideration or to be recorded as having been made. In fact, this motion is meaningless, since the report has already been received. Even before a report has been read, a motion to receive it is unnecessary if the time for its reception is established by the order of business, or if no member objects (see also below)." RONR, p. 490-491

I do realize you didn't mean to MOVE to receive it......but it's still bad form, IMO.

[Josh Martin]

(Yes, reports should be received and filed, but not included in the minutes. Whether written or oral, the minutes would only say "The report of the Membership Committee was received/heard," and would not contain the text of the report itself.)

This is incorrect. An oral report must be recorded in the minutes (if no written report is submitted as well), however, as Mr. Goldsworthy and I have noted, oral reports may only be given in very limited circumstances. All of the following conditions must be met:

• It must be a small assembly (presumably to aid in the Secretary's ability to hear the report).
• The report must be brief enough that the Secretary can record it after one hearing.
• The report must be of one of the types detailed in RONR, 10th ed., pg. 508, line 23 - pg. 510, line 2.

See RONR, 10th ed., pg. 493, lines 28-35 and RONR, 10th ed., pg. 508, line 23 - pg. 510, line 2 for more information. See RONR, 10th ed., pg. 455, lines 6-9 for an example of a report which could be given orally in a small assembly.

Your point about avoiding a motion to accept the report is well taken. I missed that.

[hmtcastle]

Your point about avoiding a motion to accept the report is well taken. I missed that.

And Mr. Mervosh pointed out that even a motion to receive is improper.

[Gary Novosielski]

Or not.

"A common error is to move that a report "be received" after it has been read - apparently on the supposition that such a motion is necessary in order for the report to be taken under consideration or to be recorded as having been made. In fact, this motion is meaningless, since the report has already been received. Even before a report has been read, a motion to receive it is unnecessary if the time for its reception is established by the order of business, or if no member objects (see also below)." RONR, p. 490-491

I do realize you didn't mean to MOVE to receive it......but it's still bad form, IMO.

No, I just meant that's the right thing to call it. It is bad form to move to receive it after it's been read. The effect of a No vote would be as successful as an attempt to unring a bell.

But it's not bad form to use the term "received", as in the minutes entry: "The report of the Program Committee was received and placed on file."