secret ballot voting

[Guest Ebsmith10@yahoo.com]

Our homeowners by-laws states" election of board will be by secret ballot" It is my understanding secret ballot voting can not be contucted by mail in votes,. I was told at last nights meeting by Roberts Rules of Order I was wrong. Can anyone please explain what secret ballot is by Roberts Rules of Order?

?

[hmtcastle]

Can anyone please explain what secret ballot is by Roberts Rules of Order?

A (secret) ballot is one which does not reveal the identity of the voter. While it's possible to cast an absentee (mail-in) secret ballot (voters do it all the time in U.S. elections), your bylaws must authorize absentee voting, otherwise it's prohibited (but not because you have to vote by ballot).

[Dan Honemann]

Our homeowners by-laws states" election of board will be by secret ballot" It is my understanding secret ballot voting can not be contucted by mail in votes,. I was told at last nights meeting by Roberts Rules of Order I was wrong. Can anyone please explain what secret ballot is by Roberts Rules of Order?

?

A procedure to be used in conducting a secret ballot vote by mail is explained on pages 410-11, but votes by mail can only be used if authorized by the bylaws.

[jstackpo]

IF - thats a big "if" - your bylaws authorize postal mail voting then the "double envelope system", described on pp. 409 ff., will (all but) assure a secret ballot.

If no authorization, mail voting not proper at all.

E-mail voting is another and much more messy story.

[Guest ebsmith10@yahoo.com]

IF - thats a big "if" - your bylaws authorize postal mail voting then the "double envelope system", described on pp. 409 ff., will (all but) assure a secret ballot.

If no authorization, mail voting not proper at all.

E-mail voting is another and much more messy story.

Thank you for your help.

Here is the statement from the by-laws "Elections. Election to the Board shall be by secret written ballot. At such election the members or the proxies may cast, in respect to each vacancy, as many votes as they are entiled to exercise under the provisions f the Restrictions and the Articles of Incorporation of the Association. Each Member shall be entitled to one (1) vote per Lot owned by the Member. The person receiving the largest number of votes shall be lected and the persons elected to the Board shall also be elected to the various and particular offices of the Board.

proxies. at all meetings of Members, each member shall be entitled to vote either in person or by proxy. All proxies shall be in writng and filed with the Secretary within three (3) days of the scheduled meeting. Every proxy shall be revocable and shall automatically cease upon conveyance by the Member of his Lot, or his attendance at the meeting for which the proxy has been given.

No were in the By laws states mail in ballots will be taken, so can you still mail them in?

[hmtcastle]

No were in the By laws states mail in ballots will be taken, so can you still mail them in?

No.

[Gary Novosielski]

Our homeowners by-laws states" election of board will be by secret ballot" It is my understanding secret ballot voting can not be contucted by mail in votes,. I was told at last nights meeting by Roberts Rules of Order I was wrong. Can anyone please explain what secret ballot is by Roberts Rules of

According to RONR, "secret ballot" is very near redundant. Ballots are assumed to be secret, i.e., nobody will be able to tell how you voted.

It is possible to conduct a ballot vote by mail, using an inner and outer envelope, but ONLY if mail voting is explicitly authorized in your bylaws. If it just says that it must be by secret ballot, but does NOT say that it may be by mail, then mail-in voting is not allowed.

RONR prohibits any sort of absentee voting, unless it is spelled out in the bylaws.

[Gary Novosielski]

Thank you for your help.

Here is the statement from the by-laws "Elections. Election to the Board shall be by secret written ballot. At such election the members or the proxies may cast, in respect to each vacancy, as many votes as they are entiled to exercise under the provisions f the Restrictions and the Articles of Incorporation of the Association. Each Member shall be entitled to one (1) vote per Lot owned by the Member. The person receiving the largest number of votes shall be lected and the persons elected to the Board shall also be elected to the various and particular offices of the Board.

proxies. at all meetings of Members, each member shall be entitled to vote either in person or by proxy. All proxies shall be in writng and filed with the Secretary within three (3) days of the scheduled meeting. Every proxy shall be revocable and shall automatically cease upon conveyance by the Member of his Lot, or his attendance at the meeting for which the proxy has been given.

No were in the By laws states mail in ballots will be taken, so can you still mail them in?

That depends on what "filed with the secretary" means. And it doesn't appear to say whether you can file them by mail. Proxy voting is also prohibited by RONR unless your bylaws authorizes that practice. And if it is authorized (which it appears to be) you have to hope that the rules are also clearly spelled out in the bylaws (which they do not appear to be).

Since the answer isn't in RONR, you probably need to figure it out for yourselves, by majority vote.

[Josh Martin]

That depends on what "filed with the secretary" means.

It doesn't matter in the least what "filed with the secretary" means as it is clearly referring to the process for granting a proxy, which is not the same as a mail-in ballot. Under a system of proxy voting, someone (the proxy holder) must be present to actually cast the vote.

You had it right the first time when you stated that mail-in voting must be explicitly authorized in the Bylaws to be valid, and since I don't see the word "mail" anywhere, it's clearly not explicitly authorized in the excerpt provided.

[Gary Novosielski]

It doesn't matter in the least what "filed with the secretary" means as it is clearly referring to the process for granting a proxy, which is not the same as a mail-in ballot. Under a system of proxy voting, someone (the proxy holder) must be present to actually cast the vote.

You had it right the first time when you stated that mail-in voting must be explicitly authorized in the Bylaws to be valid, and since I don't see the word "mail" anywhere, it's clearly not explicitly authorized in the excerpt provided.

Well, there appeared to be two ways a proxy could be offered: It could be given to a member to vote, that member being present in person; or, it could be "filed with the secretary". Since no previous mention of proxies had been made, this could be something of a game changer. But it's mostly conjecture, given the incomplete picture that we have at this point.

This does appear to offer a potential way for someone to vote and yet be absent. Though the proxy holder has to be present, the principal would not. And it appears that if you can't get someone to vote your proxies, you can send them to the secretary who (presumably) will vote them according to your wishes.

Now if that "filing" could be done by mail, then... Well, you get the picture.

Of course all of this would depend heavily on what else is in the bylaws that we don't know about. And you might argue that "filed with the secretary" means it must be hand delivered, since mail is not authorized. And who's to say I wouldn't agree with that?

[Josh Martin]

Well, there appeared to be two ways a proxy could be offered: It could be given to a member to vote, that member being present in person; or, it could be "filed with the secretary". Since no previous mention of proxies had been made, this could be something of a game changer. But it's mostly conjecture, given the incomplete picture that we have at this point.

This does appear to offer a potential way for someone to vote and yet be absent. Though the proxy holder has to be present, the principal would not. And it appears that if you can't get someone to vote your proxies, you can send them to the secretary who (presumably) will vote them according to your wishes.

Now if that "filing" could be done by mail, then... Well, you get the picture.

Of course all of this would depend heavily on what else is in the bylaws that we don't know about. And you might argue that "filed with the secretary" means it must be hand delivered, since mail is not authorized. And who's to say I wouldn't agree with that?

All I'm saying is that a proxy (even a directed proxy) isn't a mail-in ballot. The answer to the poster's question of whether a mail-in ballot may be sent in is clearly "no." Mailing in a proxy may or may not be possible, but I shall refrain from speculating on that.

[Gary Novosielski]

All I'm saying is that a proxy (even a directed proxy) isn't a mail-in ballot. The answer to the poster's question of whether a mail-in ballot may be sent in is clearly "no." Mailing in a proxy may or may not be possible, but I shall refrain from speculating on that.

And I'll happily join in with you on the refrain.