recording vote to make vote unanimous

[Guest Joe]

Here is the scenario:

Member A moves the Assembly appoint B Sergeant-at-Arms. C seconds. Vote by ballot, 33 in favor 3 opposed. C moves to make the vote unanimous (per section 45, p 399, in order if also voted by ballot). Seconded, result 33 in favor, 3 opposed.

Question, what's the proper way to record this in the minuets? Would the following do?

"The Assembly appointed B Sergeant-at-Arms by ballot vote. The assembly determined by a ballot vote, 33 in favor, 3 opposed, that the appointment was unanimous."

[Guest gerri]

Here is the scenario:

Member A moves the Assembly appoint B Sergeant-at-Arms. C seconds. Vote by ballot, 33 in favor 3 opposed. C moves to make the vote unanimous (per section 45, p 399, in order if also voted by ballot). Seconded, result 33 in favor, 3 opposed.

Question, what's the proper way to record this in the minuets? Would the following do?

"The Assembly appointed B Sergeant-at-Arms by ballot vote. The assembly determined by a ballot vote, 33 in favor, 3 opposed, that the appointment was unanimous."

IMO, the motion to make it unanimous failed because it was not unanimous (3 voted against).

Suppose "Joe" votes against a motion that passed. Then, someone makes a motion to show that "Joe" was in favor of the motion, and that motion passed with Joe voting against.

[Rob Elsman]

Here is the scenario:

Member A moves the Assembly appoint B Sergeant-at-Arms. C seconds. Vote by ballot, 33 in favor 3 opposed. C moves to make the vote unanimous (per section 45, p 399, in order if also voted by ballot). Seconded, result 33 in favor, 3 opposed.

Question, what's the proper way to record this in the minuets? Would the following do?

"The Assembly appointed B Sergeant-at-Arms by ballot vote. The assembly determined by a ballot vote, 33 in favor, 3 opposed, that the appointment was unanimous."

1. If the bylaws prescribe certain officers (e.g., president, secretary, treasurer, etc.), others (e.g., sergeant at arms) are thereby excluded, and a motion like this is an improper main motion which is invalid if adopted. RONR (10th ed.), p. 106, ll. 20-25; p. 244, ll. 10-11; p. 571, ll. 24-35.
2. Electing B sergeant at arms (no hyphens, please) by a "yes/no" vote is improper. RONR (10th ed.), p. xxi; p. 399, l. 34, through p. 400, l. 4.
3. A motion to make the result of a vote by secret ballot unanimous is out of order, and such a motion is invalid if adopted. RONR (10th ed.), p. 244, ll. 21-26; p. 255, ll. 13-28.

So, you see, the minutes are the least of your problems.

[Guest Joe]

1. If the bylaws prescribe certain officers (e.g., president, secretary, treasurer, etc.), others (e.g., sergeant at arms) are thereby excluded, and a motion like this is an improper main motion which is invalid if adopted. RONR (10th ed.), p. 106, ll. 20-25; p. 244, ll. 10-11; p. 571, ll. 24-35.
2. Electing B sergeant at arms (no hyphens, please) by a "yes/no" vote is improper. RONR (10th ed.), p. xxi; p. 399, l. 34, through p. 400, l. 4.
3. A motion to make the result of a vote by secret ballot unanimous is out of order, and such a motion is invalid if adopted. RONR (10th ed.), p. 244, ll. 21-26; p. 255, ll. 13-28.

So, you see, the minutes are the least of your problems.

OK, let's make it a motion to endorse B for Governor, that removes objections 1 and 2, yes?

How do you reconcile 3 with sec 45, p 399, lines 5-10? That is, unless 3 is also removed by changing the motion as above?

[Rob Elsman]

OK, let's make it a motion to endorse B for Governor, that removes objections 1 and 2, yes?

How do you reconcile 3 with sec 45, p 399, lines 5-10? That is, unless 3 is also removed by changing the motion as above?

Again, a motion to make unanimous the result of a vote taken by secret ballot is out of order, and such a motion is invalid if admitted and adopted. Your citation points to the rule, as do mine.

[Dan Honemann]

1. If the bylaws prescribe certain officers (e.g., president, secretary, treasurer, etc.), others (e.g., sergeant at arms) are thereby excluded, and a motion like this is an improper main motion which is invalid if adopted. RONR (10th ed.), p. 106, ll. 20-25; p. 244, ll. 10-11; p. 571, ll. 24-35.
2. Electing B sergeant at arms (no hyphens, please) by a "yes/no" vote is improper. RONR (10th ed.), p. xxi; p. 399, l. 34, through p. 400, l. 4.
3. A motion to make the result of a vote by secret ballot unanimous is out of order, and such a motion is invalid if adopted. RONR (10th ed.), p. 244, ll. 21-26; p. 255, ll. 13-28.

So, you see, the minutes are the least of your problems.

"A motion to make unanimous a ballot vote that was not unanimous is out of order, unless that motion is also voted on by ballot - since any member who openly votes against declaring the first vote unanimous will thereby reveal that he did not vote for the prevailing choice." (RONR, p. 399).

[tctheatc]

Just wondering, but what would be the point to moving to make unanimous a ballot vote that was not unanimous? Is it simply for appearance's sake? e.g. if we vote to endorse Homer Simpson for president and the vote is 75-25 in favor, we don't want Homer's feelings to be hurt bt knowing 25 voted against the endorsement?

[Rob Elsman]

Just wondering, but what would be the point to moving to make unanimous a ballot vote that was not unanimous? Is it simply for appearance's sake? e.g. if we vote to endorse Homer Simpson for president and the vote is 75-25 in favor, we don't want Homer's feelings to be hurt bt knowing 25 voted against the endorsement?

Oh, this is more common than you would think. It usually occurs in those kinds of organizations where unity is considered especially important, e.g., labor unions and political parties.

[hmtcastle]

sergeant at arms (no hyphens, please)

Since RONR uses hyphens, I assume you're imploring the Authorship Team (for the 11th Edition?) and not Joe.

[Rob Elsman]

Since RONR uses hyphens, I assume you're imploring the Authorship Team (for the 11th Edition?) and not Joe.

Both, but Joe is likely easier to convince.

[tctheatc]

Oh, this is more common than you would think. It usually occurs in those kinds of organizations where unity is considered especially important, e.g., labor unions and political parties.

Interesting. I've never seen it in our union. Maybe we have issues!!

[Rob Elsman]

Interesting. I've never seen it in our union. Maybe we have issues!!

Oops! I've given away a secret.

[Guest Joe]

Again, a motion to make unanimous the result of a vote taken by secret ballot is out of order, and such a motion is invalid if admitted and adopted. Your citation points to the rule, as do mine.

I'm sorry, you'll have to break it down for me, what does "unless that motion is also voted on by ballot" mean in the prohibition, except that sometimes it is in order?

[Rob Elsman]

I'm sorry, you'll have to break it down for me, what does "unless that motion is also voted on by ballot" mean in the prohibition, except that sometimes it is in order?

A motion to make unanimous the result of a vote taken by secret ballot would have to be voted on by secret ballot, also, in order for its adoption to be valid.

As I understand the facts of your original post, this isn't what happened. I understood that the first vote was taken by secret ballot, but the second one was not taken by secret ballot. Right?

[Guest Joe]

A motion to make unanimous the result of a vote taken by secret ballot would have to be voted on by secret ballot, also, in order for its adoption to be valid.

As I understand the facts of your original post, this isn't what happened. I understood that the first vote was taken by secret ballot, but the second one was not taken by secret ballot. Right?

You are correct, the question could have been clearer.

Let the scenario read "...Seconded, result 33 in favor, 3 opposed; vote by secret ballot."

So, how should the minutes read?

[Rob Elsman]

You are correct, the question could have been clearer.

Let the scenario read "...Seconded, result 33 in favor, 3 opposed; vote by secret ballot."

So, how should the minutes read?

"Mr. B was elected sergeant at arms with 33 votes 'aye' and 3 votes 'no'."

[Guest Joe]

Here's the scenario, as amended:

Member A moves the Assembly endorse B for governor. C seconds. Vote by ballot, 33 in favor 3 opposed. C moves to make the vote unanimous. Seconded, result 33 in favor, 3 opposed, vote conducted by secret ballot.

Question, what's the proper way to record this series of actions, (that is, including both of these two votes) in the minuets?

[Rob Elsman]

Here's the scenario, as amended:

Member A moves the Assembly endorse B for governor. C seconds. Vote by ballot, 33 in favor 3 opposed. C moves to make the vote unanimous. Seconded, result 33 in favor, 3 opposed, vote conducted by secret ballot.

Question, what's the proper way to record this series of actions, (that is, including both of these two votes) in the minuets?

You've got me so confused you'll never set me straight. Sorry.

[hmtcastle]

Member A moves the Assembly endorse B for governor. C seconds. Vote by ballot, 33 in favor 3 opposed. C moves to make the vote unanimous. Seconded, result 33 in favor, 3 opposed, vote conducted by secret ballot.

Question, what's the proper way to record this series of actions, (that is, including both of these two votes) in the minuets?

It seems to me you'd record that the motion to endorse was adopted and record that the motion to make it unanimous was also adopted. But stay tuned.

[Dan Honemann]

Here's the scenario, as amended:

Member A moves the Assembly endorse B for governor. C seconds. Vote by ballot, 33 in favor 3 opposed. C moves to make the vote unanimous. Seconded, result 33 in favor, 3 opposed, vote conducted by secret ballot.

Question, what's the proper way to record this series of actions, (that is, including both of these two votes) in the minuets?

The minutes should record that the motion was adopted by a vote of 33 in favor and 3 opposed (record the report of the tellers).

The motion to make the vote unanimous was rejected, and should not be recorded.

[hmtcastle]

The motion to make the vote unanimous was rejected, and should not be recorded.

Assuming that means that a unanimous vote is required to adopt a motion to make the vote unanimous (makes sense but who knows), that would answer a recent question posted on the forum that, if I recall correctly, asked when a unanimous vote is required.