Guest Jane Posted January 5, 2011 at 07:26 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 07:26 PM Our bylaws state that we need a 75% vote of the association for changes to bylaws, voting on projects, etc. The board would like to change the percentage to a lesser percentage. The board sends the ballot to vote on this amendment out every year along with the information for the annual meeting. Can they use this voting procedure, COLLECTING votes year after year until they reach the 75% needed to make this change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted January 5, 2011 at 07:32 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 07:32 PM Our bylaws state that we need a 75% vote of the association for changes to bylaws, voting on projects, etc. The board would like to change the percentage to a lesser percentage. The board sends the ballot to vote on this amendment out every year along with the information for the annual meeting. Can they use this voting procedure, COLLECTING votes year after year until they reach the 75% needed to make this change? NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jane Posted January 5, 2011 at 07:36 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 07:36 PM Thank you! Can you tell me how I can argue this point, according to RR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted January 5, 2011 at 07:57 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 07:57 PM Can you tell me how I can argue this point, according to RRYour best approach might be to ask the board where it gets the authority to do what it is attempting to do.And ask the board members if they know of any other voting process in which the polls remain open for years. It's not inconceivable but it's extremely unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 5, 2011 at 07:58 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 07:58 PM Thank you! Can you tell me how I can argue this point, according to RR>"A society has no executive board, nor can its officers act as a board, except as the bylaws may provide; and when so established, the board has only such power as is delegated to it by the bylaws or by vote of the society's assembly referring individual matters to it. " RONR, p. 465Perhaps you should simply ask them by whose authority are they attempting to change this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jane Posted January 5, 2011 at 08:16 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 08:16 PM This "plan" is the works of the attorney on the board. He is not one we hired, but an attorney by profession, and he thinks he is always an authority. For whatever reason, we have always voted one time, and it either passed or it didn't pass, but frankly, this is the conniving mind of a board that WANTS the 75% changed and will do whatever it takes. I have never felt this was proper, but I cannot find it anywhere in the bylaws that say we can't do it, just that an announcement needs to be made if something is to be voted on and a vote taken. Most of the board members wouldn't know what the bylaws say if you waved a gun in their face, much less Robert's Rules. Sad, but that's the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted January 5, 2011 at 08:22 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 08:22 PM Most of the board members wouldn't know what the bylaws say if you waved a gun in their face, much less Robert's Rules. Sad, but that's the way it is.Sounds like it might be time for new board members. And if you don't want to wait until the next election, see FAQ #20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 5, 2011 at 08:27 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 08:27 PM This "plan" is the works of the attorney on the board. He is not one we hired, but an attorney by profession, and he thinks he is always an authority. For whatever reason, we have always voted one time, and it either passed or it didn't pass, but frankly, this is the conniving mind of a board that WANTS the 75% changed and will do whatever it takes. I have never felt this was proper, but I cannot find it anywhere in the bylaws that say we can't do it, just that an announcement needs to be made if something is to be voted on and a vote taken. Most of the board members wouldn't know what the bylaws say if you waved a gun in their face, much less Robert's Rules. Sad, but that's the way it is.That's not how this should be viewed.Your bylaws probably don't say the Board can't take all of the money and have a party in Tahiti either, so does that mean they can?....as was cited earlier, a board only has the power conferred to it by the bylaws or by the society itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jane Posted January 5, 2011 at 08:53 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 08:53 PM Thanks to all of you. This is like a one man army taking on a brigade, but I am going to give it my best shot because I know I'm right, along with your expertise. We ARE getting a new board in two weeks, but they won't be any better. It is what it is. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:13 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:13 PM I cannot believe what I am reading. If I'm understanding this correctly, this has got to be the most absurd thing I've ever read here!! Am I to understand a ballot goes out for the change, and 11% vote in favor. Next year the same question and 9% vote in favor, so now we have 20%?? And next year when 25% vote in the affirmative we'll have 45? And we keep going to 75? Seriously, if I were a member of a group whose leaders were proposing that, much less doing it, I'd leave pronto. What's the point? Why have any laws at all?It seems more a math than a RONR question. Ask them this: if you're gonna total all the yes votes, why stop at 75%? Why not wait 'til you get to 100% and declare it a unanimous victory!! They should go for that. Then remind them they forgot to count all the no votes..LOL!! Probably 300% voted no, haha!Pardon my bluntness, but this is nuts. they are nuts. RONR can't fix stoopid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:32 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:32 PM I cannot believe what I am reading. If I'm understanding this correctly, this has got to be the most absurd thing I've ever read here!! Am I to understand a ballot goes out for the change, and 11% vote in favor. Next year the same question and 9% vote in favor, so now we have 20%?? And next year when 25% vote in the affirmative we'll have 45? And we keep going to 75? Seriously, if I were a member of a group whose leaders were proposing that, much less doing it, I'd leave pronto. What's the point? Why have any laws at all?It seems more a math than a RONR question. Ask them this: if you're gonna total all the yes votes, why stop at 75%? Why not wait 'til you get to 100% and declare it a unanimous victory!! They should go for that. Then remind them they forgot to count all the no votes..LOL!! Probably 300% voted no, haha!Pardon my bluntness, but this is nuts. they are nuts. RONR can't fix stoopid.I think they are just bringing up the same question for a vote year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:35 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:35 PM I think they are just bringing up the same question for a vote year after year.Perhaps. Though that's not how some of us read, "COLLECTING votes year after year until they reach the 75% needed to make this change?" (especially the "COLLECTING" part). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:41 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:41 PM Perhaps. Though that's not how some of us read, "COLLECTING votes year after year until they reach the 75% needed to make this change?" (especially the "COLLECTING" part).So what's all that you say about horses and zebras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:47 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:47 PM I cannot believe what I am reading. If I'm understanding this correctly, this has got to be the most absurd thing I've ever read here!!You haven't been here long enough, although I think it does make the top ten even for me. Unless Mr. Honemann is correct, although if he is I have no idea why Jane is asking the question. Perhaps Jane can clarify whether "collecting" means that the board is accumulating the votes from each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:53 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 09:53 PM So what's all that you say about horses and zebras?Good point. I guess we'll have to wait and see if this particular horse wears striped pajamas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jane Posted January 5, 2011 at 10:03 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 10:03 PM Yes, I totally agree that this is absurd and should be right at the top of your ten must idiotic situations. To answer your question, they are submitting this to a vote year after year until they finally get 75% votes of the 97 residents! Same ballot, just hoping they will finally get 75% to vote yes, even if it's 20 years from now. LOL Crazy, huh??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted January 5, 2011 at 10:25 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 10:25 PM To answer your question, they are submitting this to a vote year after year until they finally get 75% votes of the 97 residents! Same ballot, just hoping they will finally get 75% to vote yes, even if it's 20 years from now.But, at the risk of beating a dead zebra. Are these vote cumulative? That is, are 10 votes from one year being added to 15 votes from the next year and 12 votes from the year after that? In other words, would the vote of a resident who voted in 2008 and is no longer a resident, be combined with the votes of those who vote in 2009 and 2010? If so, how do you avoid the same person voting each year (i.e. more than once).Or is the same motion being voted on each year and some years it gets 40% and some years it gets 35% and the board is waiting until the year when it gets 75% of the membership to agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jane Posted January 5, 2011 at 10:38 PM Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at 10:38 PM Mountcastle, you are correct in your first assumption, that the ten votes from year one are being added to 14 votes from the next year and 12 votes from the year after. Good point, someone could move and the next person buying the unit could vote. It's totally crazy. I just needed some expertise to agree with me and an opinion that it is and against Robert's Rules! Thanks!!!! (Your laugh for the day!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted January 6, 2011 at 01:28 AM Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 at 01:28 AM Thanks to all of you. This is like a one man army taking on a brigade, but I am going to give it my best shot because I know I'm right, along with your expertise. We ARE getting a new board in two weeks, but they won't be any better. It is what it is. :-(Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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