Forced resignation

[Katie]

The Pres. of a PTO (Parent-Teacher Org.) verbally quit and walked out while setting up for an official PTO fundraiser-function and her resignation was interpretted to mean that she quit her position as Pres.. She only meant to quit that event and wishes to continue as Pres., but was told the board members needed to meet in order for her to continue as Pres.. She hoped the mtg. would resolve issues which led up to her quitting that event. The others voted her off, forcing her to resign, despite the fact she wished to continue. How valid is a resignation if given verbally at a time when it was not a mtg. and not even the actual event? How valid is the forced resignation then to vote her off in a closed meeting (the 3 remaining bd. members and the Principal were there too)? And can a mtg. like this be nullified if it had no grounds to begin with, or was the mtg. proper?

[George Mervosh]

There is no such thing as a forced resignation in RONR.

See Official Interpretation 2006-19

[Rev Ed]

If she was voted off, how was she forced to resign?

Did she ever make it clear, prior to the motion to accept her resignation, that she did not mean to resign as President? If so, then it is clear that no motion to accept the resignation would be in order.

[Guest Katie]

Sorry, I should not have used the word "forced." I meant that she was willing to continue with the job and stated that, but they were not willing. I was not in the meeting, which was limited to the PTO board members only, so I apologize for not having more details.

Rev. Ed - I will bring up your point to her. Thanks!

A main ? was if a verbal resignation which was not in the context of a business mtg., needed to be treated as if it was submitted at a meeting. Since coming to this forum, I found some reference in RRO that any resignation must be in writing. She was told that the verbal resignation necessitated a meeting, where she would either have to give her resignation in writing or formally withdraw it. However, there was NOTHING to withdraw as I see it! If she can specify some details about how the meeting was conducted, there may even be some question about the validity of what transpired then. I'm trying to get some info. to her quickly so that perhaps she can withdraw her resignation if she submitted it at this meeting only because she felt that it was necessary (the others being a majority, saying they did not want her to continue). I don't know if they had a vote conducted at that meeting. She has a positive attitude and most of the previous problems could be easily worked out on a personal level with some help; in other words, I think she could stil be an effective president. At the very least, it's so much better to finish the job for the rest of the school year at least, and I'm trying to see if that's possible.

There are no further specific ?s at this point, but any general advise re. this would be appreciated.

[hmtcastle]

There are no further specific ?s at this point, but any general advise re. this would be appreciated.

There is no requirement that a resignation be in writing or that it be tendered at a meeting (though both would be preferable). A resignation can be withdrawn up until the point at which it is formally accepted (or rejected) and that would typically occur at a meeting of the body authorized to fill the vacancy (although when a president's resignation is accepted there's no vacancy to fill since the vice-president automatically assumes the position).

[Josh Martin]

How valid is a resignation if given verbally at a time when it was not a mtg. and not even the actual event?

The resignation is not valid until it is accepted by the body authorized to fill the vacancy. From the facts provided, it appears that she withdrew her resignation (or clarified that it had not been her intent to resign) before the board could meet to accept the resignation. The fact that the resignation was given verbally or when it was given is not relevant.

How valid is the forced resignation then to vote her off in a closed meeting (the 3 remaining bd. members and the Principal were there too)?

There is no such thing as a "forced resignation," as a resignation is, by definition, a voluntary act. You'll need to check the Bylaws to determine whether the board has the authority to remove her from office, but this is not a resignation.

And can a mtg. like this be nullified if it had no grounds to begin with, or was the mtg. proper?

The actions taken at a meeting cannot be nullified on the basis that "they had no grounds," but this does not mean the meeting was proper. Was the meeting properly called under the Bylaws? Were all members of the board notified?

A main ? was if a verbal resignation which was not in the context of a business mtg., needed to be treated as if it was submitted at a meeting.

The manner and context of the resignation does not affect the parliamentary significance. The salient point is that the resignation was withdrawn before it could be accepted.

Since coming to this forum, I found some reference in RRO that any resignation must be in writing.

This is not correct. It is preferable that a resignation be in writing, but it is not required.

She was told that the verbal resignation necessitated a meeting, where she would either have to give her resignation in writing or formally withdraw it.

This is not correct. Before the question on accepting the resignation is accepted, the individual may withdraw the resignation at any time. No meeting is necessary, nor is it necessary to submit a written resignation in order to proceed. Accepting the resignation would require a meeting.

However, there was NOTHING to withdraw as I see it!

There was a resignation to withdraw, but in my opinion, the chair's statement that she did not intend to resign constitutes withdrawal.

[Guest pam]

There is no such thing as a forced resignation in RONR.

See Official Interpretation 2006-19

[Guest pam]

I am the person to whom the question is referring. As stated I walked out while setting up for an event. I said "I am leaving, I quit" I never said I quit the PTO. I spoke with the Principal 2 days later about it. She asked if I meant did I quit the PTO and I told her no. We discussed what prompted me walking out. We talked and after her hearing me she suggested that a meeting needed to take place with the other board members to discuss some of the topics I had touched on. I assumed we would be talking about how we could improve our board. The meeting was two weeks after the event due to Holiday break. We met and pretty much the only topic was about my outburst. The Principal then asked each of us if we felt the board could at this point go forward, I said yes, the others said no and I was told, the majority rules and I needed to write up a letter of resignation and turn it in to the secretary, which I have done already. (today actually)

[hmtcastle]

I was told, the majority rules and I needed to write up a letter of resignation and turn it in to the secretary, which I have done already.

Well, even if you hadn't resigned before, you did now.

But the next time someone tells you you need to resign, tell them you don't.

[Guest Katie]

Some very interesting discussion here. J. Martin wrote,The resignation is not valid until it is accepted by the body authorized to fill the vacancy.Later he added, Accepting the resignation would require a meeting.

So is the resignation that she later submitted in writing to the Secy's home, valid if the PTO has not met yet to accept it? Still room for withdrawal of this resignation? Although I am still interested in what the possibilities are for this case, at this point I am also interested in learning about the process.

[David A Foulkes]

Some very interesting discussion here. J. Martin wrote,The resignation is not valid until it is accepted by the body authorized to fill the vacancy.Later he added, Accepting the resignation would require a meeting.

So is the resignation that she later submitted in writing to the Secy's home, valid if the PTO has not met yet to accept it? Still room for withdrawal of this resignation? Although I am still interested in what the possibilities are for this case, at this point I am also interested in learning about the process.

I think the main point here is that no business can be conducted outside of a meeting, unless the bylaws stipulate otherwise (which hopefully they don't). A resignation (normally in writing, and delivered to the Secretary or appointing power) is a request to be excused from duty. But simply requesting something does not make it so. Some body (Board or general membership) must agree to it (either by vote or unanimous consent), as in this case, accept the resignation. Until the chair states the question of accepting the resignation, and thereby giving ownership of the motion to the assembly, the resignation can be withdrawn, and life goes on. After that, it must be with the permission of the assembly.

I would say it's a good idea to put the withdrawal in writing, even if the resignation was tendered orally, just so there is a good record of when it was withdrawn in case of any dispute.

See FAQ 18, and the pages referenced there.

[Josh Martin]

I am the person to whom the question is referring. As stated I walked out while setting up for an event. I said "I am leaving, I quit" I never said I quit the PTO. I spoke with the Principal 2 days later about it. She asked if I meant did I quit the PTO and I told her no. We discussed what prompted me walking out. We talked and after her hearing me she suggested that a meeting needed to take place with the other board members to discuss some of the topics I had touched on. I assumed we would be talking about how we could improve our board. The meeting was two weeks after the event due to Holiday break. We met and pretty much the only topic was about my outburst. The Principal then asked each of us if we felt the board could at this point go forward, I said yes, the others said no and I was told, the majority rules and I needed to write up a letter of resignation and turn it in to the secretary, which I have done already. (today actually)

It would seem to me that since you made it clear that you had no intention of resigning, that statement constituted withdrawal of any "resignation" and any motion the board made to accept the resignation was meaningless. Unfortunately for you, you have now turned in another resignation, but you are free to withdraw this as well, since the resignation has not yet been accepted. The only way the board's action could be valid is if your Bylaws give the board the power to remove the President.

So is the resignation that she later submitted in writing to the Secy's home, valid if the PTO has not met yet to accept it? Still room for withdrawal of this resignation?

The resignation is not valid until the body authorized to fill the vacancy accepts it, so there is still time to withdraw it.

[Katie]

Everyone's comments are very clear and timely. I hope that the Pres. of the PTO will withdraw her resignation so that she may at least serve her term until the end of the school year, but will see how it plays out. Thanks to your help, she can see that it's not a done deal yet. Your advice has been greatly appreciated.

[Guest Duchess]

I have a question about this. I have read it over and over on this forum that the resignation has to be accepted by the assembly. It the organization does not have in its by-laws, who will or will not accept a resignation, then who would this be? The general membership? We have just had something very similar go on, I was always told at our organization that it is the trustees who accept or not a resignation; but this is not in our bylaws or standing rules. Can someone please help me out with this?

[Josh Martin]

I have a question about this. I have read it over and over on this forum that the resignation has to be accepted by the assembly. It the organization does not have in its by-laws, who will or will not accept a resignation, then who would this be? The general membership? We have just had something very similar go on, I was always told at our organization that it is the trustees who accept or not a resignation; but this is not in our bylaws or standing rules. Can someone please help me out with this?

The body which is authorized to fill the resulting vacancy is the body which is authorized to accept the resignation. If your Bylaws are silent on the method of filling vacancies, then the same body that elected the position in the first place would fill the vacancy.

[Gary Novosielski]

I have a question about this. I have read it over and over on this forum that the resignation has to be accepted by the assembly. It the organization does not have in its by-laws, who will or will not accept a resignation, then who would this be? The general membership? We have just had something very similar go on, I was always told at our organization that it is the trustees who accept or not a resignation; but this is not in our bylaws or standing rules. Can someone please help me out with this?

Do your bylaws have a provision for who may fill vacancies in unexpired terms? If so, that group could accept the resignation and appoint the successor. If there are no such provisions, then the group that can accept the resignation is the general membership (assembly), and they would then hold a special election to fill the vacancy.

For non-elective offices, the appointing authority can accept the resignation and appoint the successor.