Mike Phillips

Mr. Honemann, thanks for the confirmation and the cites. 

Mr. Martin, your suggestions are great, but I don’t think we will be successful amending the bylaws, as you suggest. However, if the opportunity arises, we will grab it. 

Just what I needed. Thanks to each of you. 

Where in RONR is the authority for the premise that if an objection to a motion, procedure, or ruling by the chair is not made before the end of the meeting, the objection is waived, and the chair’s ruling stands?

An Executive Committee comprises 60 people. They meet monthly to conduct the business of the organization. There are ex officio members on the EC who ore not allowed to vote. They add another 100 members. As I understand it, the body of the entire membership is the 60 members, not 160. The bylaws are actually silent on the question. Which is the correct number for determining the “majority of the entire membership” for voting on motions? It seems logical that the “entire membership” is the voting membership. Do you agree?

On 8/17/2023 at 9:37 AM, Josh Martin said:

A resignation from office is not effective until it is accepted by the assembly.

I’ve always wondered what happens if the resignation is not accepted.

Since there are no bylaws and since RONR is not the parliamentary authority, it seems to me that anything goes. 

Did that. No luck. 

There is a great need for such a resource. 

Our political party passed this rule yesterday at our annual convention. 
 

Quote

Motions to amend a Report of the following Committees: Rules, Plan of Organization, Platform or Resolutions shall not be in order unless a motion is made to the respective Committee Chair 10 days prior to the convening of the Convention.

3:22: A motion is a formal proposal by a member, in a meeting, that the assembly take certain action.  

Having concluded their work, our Committees do not normally meet after making their Reports to the party for posting on the party website at least 30 days prior to the Convention  

Question: How does a Delegate to the convention make a motion “to the respective Committee Chair 10 days prior to convening of the Convention” when the Committee is not or is not scheduled to be in session during that time period? 

I believe our organization has seriously limited the ability of the deliberative body to deliberate important matters at its convention, with such deliberations being the primary business of the Convention. It’s not relevant what the body meant to pass, it’s relevant what it actually passed. 

 

2/3 is 66-2/3% In your case, there were 17 voters. 2/3 of 17 voters is 11-1/3 voters. That number has to be rounded up to 12. The vote failed. 

On 5/24/2023 at 6:23 PM, Guest *****@*****.tld said:

Where does it say that Robert's Rules of Order should not be used to hinder the aims of the organization?

Tell us more. This question in my experience is often asked by people who don’t understand the rules. What are your circumstances?

My last two posts have been held for approval. Did I violate a rule?

On 4/7/2023 at 6:50 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

I have a copy of PL, but if I'm away from my bookshelf, I go to this link.

Thank you!

On 4/9/2023 at 11:51 AM, Richard Brown said:

You can order it through the National Association of Parliamentarians (NAP) bookstore. You can also probably find it on eBay, and, I believe, on Amazon. It is a very valuable resource. The last time I checked, I believe NAP was selling it for around $50. As I recall, some of the prices that I have seen on eBay seemed a bit high, much higher than the price NAP charges for a new copy. 

I've checked eBay and Amazon with no luck. It could pop up at any time. It's not listed on the NAP website. I'll ask them about ordering. Thanks. 

On 4/7/2023 at 6:50 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

I have a copy of PL, but if I'm away from my bookshelf, I go to this link.

Thank you!

On 4/7/2023 at 11:06 AM, J. J. said:

There may be other methods if a minority is engaging in these acts. 

What would some of those methods be? 8:10 says that the situation should be an extreme emergency such that "chair believes taking time for a vote on adjourning would be dangerous to those present". What if there does note appear to be a clear and present physical danger, and the troublemakers simply will not be in order?

Thanks. My present goal is to become registered, but at my current pace, I may not live long enough! I may try to find a copy of it. 

"Q and A 72 in PL (p. 436)"

What is PL?

On 4/5/2023 at 4:59 PM, Atul Kapur said:

If you have clear evidence that the vote on the second motion achieved any of those three thresholds, then it is in force.

How so since the Motion to Rescind or the Motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted was never moved? It's as if they were assumed to have been made since the thresholds were met for those motions. (I'm not arguing or disagreeing; I really don't understand.)

On 4/5/2023 at 10:28 AM, J. J. said:

Generally, the announcement of the chair is determinative, especially on a voice vote. 

That makes sense. If the body disagrees, it can appeal the pronouncement by the chair, call for a standing or roll call vote, and such?

On 4/5/2023 at 9:41 AM, Rob Elsman said:

Whether the motion was adopted or rejected depends on what the presiding officer announced, notwithstanding a possible error by the chair.

So if a motion fails and the presiding officer announces that it passes, it passes? Please clarify. Thanks. 

I'm not good a RONR yet, but I am good at math. The motion required five votes to pass. It got two. It fails. It's dead. 

@Josh Martin Thanks to your discussion, I think I finally figured out a succinct way to ask my question. Is it possible to prohibit the introduction of New Business that is not communicated to the body at least x days before the next meeting?

On 5/25/2022 at 8:09 AM, Josh Martin said:

You have the right idea, but to say as an absolute that this cannot be done goes too far. The assembly may adopt a rule of this nature, however, it would require a special rule of order to do so. To adopt a special rule of order requires a 2/3 vote with previous notice or a vote of a majority of the entire membership.

And now almost a year later, the rule was not designated as a special rule of order when it passed. While I don't know if there was a majority of the membership voting in the affirmative, there definitely was no notice. Since no objection was made to passage of the rule at that time (such as not being properly proffered as a special rule of order), I assume the rule is binding. Alternatively, is there a way to attack the rule? We can only amend the by-laws once per year at the annual convention.

On 5/25/2022 at 8:09 AM, Josh Martin said:

they are free to ... propose amendments, such as provisions for the rule's suspension.

@Josh Martin Are you saying that it might be a good idea to amend the rule by adding, "This rule may be suspended by a majority vote of the Executive Committee?" If so, that makes a lot of sense to me. 

On 5/25/2022 at 8:09 AM, Josh Martin said:

Nothing in RONR requires an item to be listed on an agenda in order to be considered, so a rule requiring submission of an agenda in advance, in and of itself, will not prevent the introduction of motions not listed on the agenda.

I don't have access to the minutes at the moment, but as I recall, the rule states that items not listed on the advance agenda cannot be taken up at the meeting. (That language is not verbatim.) That provision seems dangerous in that it can paralyze the Executive Committee's ability to take necessary action on a matter that occurs less than seven days before the next meeting. 

The best solution would be to get rid of the rule. Leadership doesn't have a problem with providing information in advance, but they do have a problem with their hands being tied in dealing with matters that benefit the body.

I'm struggling with printing from the CD. As an example, I want to print Table II (Table of Rules Relating to Motions) and laminate the sheets but I can't get the formatting right. When I set the printer for landscape mode, Folio ignores the setting. When I export the Table, some of the columns are missing. Exporting as a text file is counterproductive. There are too many problems to describe them all, so let me ask if someone can provide guidance as to how to effectively print. 

On 5/30/2022 at 7:15 PM, Weldon Merritt said:

Indeed there is! Becoming an RP takes a lot more work.

Understood, so let me ask the question this way. Is this college-level course a good way to work towards becoming an RP, or is there a better pathway you would recommend?