If Board member is present but doesn't vote, is that counted as an abstention?

[Guest General Jeff]

During an October 8, 2013 Downtown Los Angeles Neighborhood Council Board of Directors monthly meeting, a controversial agenda item was voted on. Skid Row Housing Trust, a developer of low-income housing for homeless people and folks in recovery from drugs and alcohol abuse, requested a letter of support for an alcohol permit for a first floor restaurant in their newest building (out of 25 they already own/operate).

 

Prior to the vote, it was determined that out of 28 Board seats, many of the members were also members of a powerful lobbyist group, the same as the applicant. While most recused themselves, there were several who did not. (A separate ethics investigation is currently on-going). 

 

That said, a qualifying quorum of 14 Board members were PRESENT, but all members did not vote. Of the voting Board members the vote was as follows; 6-for, 2-against, 4-abstain with 2 more Board members thinking they were ineligible to vote due to non-completion of a required ethics training course (It was determined later by the LA City Attorney's office that they could still have indeed voted).

 

My question is this, of the two alleged "ineligible" members, do their "non-votes" automatically count as abstentions?

 

While it was first "wrongfully declared" that the abstentions didn't count, the next day our by-laws were re-visited and it was subsequently determined that there is specific language that states that abstentions ARE to be included.

 

Now, somehow the "defeated" Board members have worked to get this item back on the agenda for a "reconsideration vote" (It was explained that because there was a "tie"....6-for VERSUS 2-against plus the 4-abstentions, our President could have broken the tie according to our by-laws)

 

Again, the question is regarding the 2 "ineligible" members. Are their votes counted as abstentions?...If so, this would then deem the vote "not a tie" (6-for, 2-against and SIX-abstain [six to eight], thus missing the required "simple majority" number of "8-for" votes in this case) and "not qualifying" for a  reconsideration vote.

 

Your thoughts? 

[Chris Harrison]

Unless your bylaws say otherwise a majority vote is calculated from those who were at the meeting and actually voted (RONR pp. 400-401).  Anyone who was there but didn't vote had abstained and don't get counted in the equation.

[Dan Honemann]

See FAQ #6 Do abstention votes count?.

 

Based upon what you have posted, your bylaws establish rules that are different from those in RONR. As a consequence, you will need to look to your bylaws for an answer.

[Josh Martin]

My question is this, of the two alleged "ineligible" members, do their "non-votes" automatically count as abstentions?

 

Yes. An abstention is, by definition, to refrain from voting.

 

While it was first "wrongfully declared" that the abstentions didn't count, the next day our by-laws were re-visited and it was subsequently determined that there is specific language that states that abstentions ARE to be included.

 

If the chair declared at the meeting that the motion was adopted, that declaration stands, even if it was in error. It's too late to correct the chair's declaration of the result now. Also, abstentions generally don't count under RONR.

 

Now, somehow the "defeated" Board members have worked to get this item back on the agenda for a "reconsideration vote" (It was explained that because there was a "tie"....6-for VERSUS 2-against plus the 4-abstentions, our President could have broken the tie according to our by-laws)

 

Again, the question is regarding the 2 "ineligible" members. Are their votes counted as abstentions?...If so, this would then deem the vote "not a tie" (6-for, 2-against and SIX-abstain [six to eight], thus missing the required "simple majority" number of "8-for" votes in this case) and "not qualifying" for a  reconsideration vote.

 

The motion to Reconsider is not in order at this time unless your rules provide otherwise. Under RONR, it has strict time limits and can only be made at the same meeting or at a meeting on the next business day in a multiple-day session. Additionally, only members who voted on the prevailing side may move to Reconsider. If the motion was lost (which would include a tie), that's those who voted against it. If the motion was adopted, that's those who voted for it. Members who abstained may not move to Reconsider.

 

If the motion was defeated, it may be renewed at the next session. If it was adopted, it may be rescinded. The motion to Rescind requires a 2/3 vote, a vote of a majority of the entire membership, or a majority vote with previous notice for adoption. These motions do not have strict time limits nor restrictions on who may make the motion.

 

Whether the motion was a tie or not has nothing to do with whether the motion may be reconsidered, renewed, or rescinded. There is nothing special about a tie - it's treated as any other defeated motion.

 

As noted, it seems your bylaws (and possibly applicable law, since you're consulting an attorney) have their own provisions on some of these subjects, and those rules would supersede RONR.

[Tim Wynn]

 Also, abstentions generally don't count under RONR.

Which is another way of saying an abstention never counts as a vote under RONR (though under some circumstances an abstention will have the same effect as a negative vote).