Jim Garr

Gentlemen, this is a very interesting discussion and it appears to me you all have valid points in your commentaries. However, I feel this has an answer that is the very basis of voting and motions. That basis is mentioned in 1:6 where it says "The basis principle in a deliberative assembly is that, to become the act or choice of the body, a proposition must be adopted by a majority vote; direct approval - implying assumption of responsibility for the act - . . . ." When you vote aye for an act or motion, you mentally tell yourself you are accepting responsibility for that act. Without that affirmative vote only those who voted 'no' can mentally say 'I voted against it' and feel good with themselves. Those who remain silent can not say they voted for it and can always say 'I didn't vote for it' should that later become popular or necessary.

Gary and all, The Chair did not make an announcement of the results. The spirited discussion I referred to occurred literally during the show of hands for the nays and things went down hill from there. The discussion to include the two who abstained to become nine against happened almost immediately and the Chair became overwhelmed and just shut up without announcing a decisive result. After Mr. Katz prompt reply that night I conveyed the meaning as I then understood and the Chair sent an announcement saying the motion passed. While I don't know if this action will withstand a court challenge but for us the motion is now history and people have a new windmill to attack.

Gentlemen, thank you all for your replies. Mr. Martin thank you for confirming my thoughts on the 2-1 vote. I think I have a very clear idea of what is required and have instructed the Chairman to declare the motion passed. Some won't like it but you can't win them all. Again, thank you.

Mr. Merritt, our bylaws actually say a quorum is fifty percent plus one (50%+1) of the voting members. For many years we had only 25 members, all of whom were voting members. Then we had to carry a quorum of 14 (since 12 1/2 + 1 = 13 1/2 and you can't have a half a person.) And yes, I would agree with your example. Mr. Katz's response caused me to read 45:44-55 where in 45:52 I found an answer which gave me an insight into why the opposing group were making their claim. Had this been a roll call vote we would have had to list at least one of the two who abstained to show a quorum was present but the result of the vote would remain 8 aye - 7 nay. The vote was a show of hands which is not a roll call vote.

Thank you.

Background: Our organization has 30 members. A quorum is 50% plus 1 or 16. The requirement to pass a motion is not defined in our bylaws and is generally thought to conform to the definition of that in Robert's Rules 1:6 - a majority of the votes cast. At a recent properly called meeting with 17 members present, a vote on a controversial measure was taken, first via viva voce. When the Chairman could not ascertain an outcome he called for a second vote, this time via a show of hands. The outcome was 8 in the affirmative and 7 in the negative. (Two members announced they were abstaining.) The Chairman was getting ready to announce the motion passed but before he did a spirited discussion broke out with the opposing group claiming the motion failed because the abstentions would count as negative votes, thus the final count would be 8 aye, 9 nay. This controversary was eventually settled by application of 4:35. Then the issue turned to it failed because the total vote cast did not reach the quorum value and it was claimed the total votes cast must, at a minimum, equal to number required in a quorum. Not being able to argue for or against this argument the question lingers. My question is: In order for a motion to pass, is there a requirement for a total votes cast must equal, at a minimum, the number required for a meeting quorum? If there is this requirement, please site the source. [Since there is no obligation to vote, (45:3), it is my feeling had there only been 3 votes cast - (2 aye, 1 nay) the motion would have passed even if all 30 members had been present.]