Dougmeister

@Josh Martin, sorry to draw this out even longer, but, please help me clarify something here. Do you (and others) on this forum believe that the best course of action to pursue is to: 1) Use "Request for Information" in order to enlighten the rest of the membership concerning the facts which we have learned that have not been made available to everyone Or 2) Make a "Motion to Rescind" the already-approved budget due to the fact that most of the membership were not aware of these facts?

"They" is just the presiding officer, the lead pastor in this case. He may have other leaders present their portion of the budget, but he is "leading" the meeting. Sorry.

The purpose is two-fold: 1) Get the information "out there". They withheld specific information that would have affected the vote. 2) Possibly nullify the original vote (?) so that the budget can be voted upon again but with as many members as possible having all of the information from #1 Regarding the "running out of time" terminology: They scheduled the business meeting 45 minutes before another meeting (the main service) so not only will it be impossible to extend the Annual Business Meeting beyond 45 minutes in length, but they may very well try to wrap things up early to allow time for people to set up, etc. for the service. I could contact them and ask that the meeting time be moved, but that will likely have strong pushback. We only found out the time about a week or two ago and we've been busy trying to prepare a strategy.

Thank you, Atul. Your help is deeply appreciated. Any thoughts as to #4 or #5? Or anyone else? I can't wait to read the responses... I feel that I am getting close to an answer for my question.

Thank you all for all of the comments, insights, and advice. After digesting all of this information, it seems that the steps to take are: 1) Stand up when the main speaker has finished speaking (but before the meeting has ended, obviously) 2) Wait to be "recognized" 3) Say "Request for Information" and state the question regarding the budget (that has already been voted upon but some information had not been dispersed to most people) 4) If they refuse to allow the question or allow debate, then we say "Point of Order" and remind them that Robert's Rules are supposed to be in effect And lastly: 5) If they claim they are running out of time, what are our options? They can call another business meeting at any time, but we can only request one if 10% of the membership signs a petition (which should not be a problem, but would be difficult to get by this Sunday).

Gary, they stagger terms for board members so only a few are up for election every year. And the constitution only specifies that the annual business meeting takes place in January; it does not specify that us when the vote should take place. (Again, I know, kind of dumb, but it doesn't *say* you can't do something stupid like vote 2 weeks before the annual meeting based strictly on a handout of 4 or 5 pages.

This goes to the heart of my original question. Let's say they don't ask for questions. So I stand up. They either A) do not "recognize" me or say 'no' to my request for information. According to RONR, can I say "Point of Order" and call attention to the fact that they are not following their own "rules" as delineated by our organization's constitution?

Sorry. I meant changes to the current constitution to specify that the business meeting occur before the vote.

@Richard Brown, the budget is submitted by the finance committee, approved by elder board (Dec 2022) , and either accepted or rejected by congregational majority vote (1st week of Jan, 2023) Part of the confusion is that, for unexplained reasons (and unfortunately, no one questioned it at the time, myself included), the budget was "presented" as handouts (Dec 2022) then voted on by ballot a few weeks later (1st week of Jan, 2023), but still voted upon BEFORE the annual business meeting (next Sunday). I realize that it's screwed up, and I am drafting proposed changes to make the sequence more logical. However, that leaves me where I am. Does that help clear things up at all?

If it helps in understanding this confusing situation, the summary is: * a small but significant (and growing) number of people want to discuss the budget * leadership does not want to discuss it with all members (there is more to this, but for purposes of clarity and succinctness, I'm simplifying) * We want to discuss it in the least disruptive way yet also have the highest percentage of members be present I hope that helps somewhat.

Strangely enough, the congregational vote has already happened. I know it sounds dumb; they say itvs always been done that way and no one thought about it at the time. The head of the board (pastor) will do the presentation... Possibly done other leaders. I expect someone to "motion" that the meeting be adjourned, seconded, at is the end of it as far as they are concerned. I expect no subsequent meeting until next January unless we petition for a special business meeting.

Fair point. But since they make a point of saying that in their constitution, I feel justified in questioning them if they do not. So does "Robert's Rules" require that there be a time for questions, etc.?

A local non-profit (church) says in its constitution that it follows Robert's Rules. However, like most places, they do not really follow them. If the annual business meeting does not have a time for questions, does that explicitly 'break' Robert's Rules of Order? I.e., if they simply present the budget and do not open the floor for questions, comments, etc.