Amending Motion not Germane and Moving Agenda Items

[Guest Christina]

We have an Association Meeting next week and have a motion to discuss gifting the school $ 5 k (amended from the last meeting of $15 k) for a specific item. An association member asked me to help her find a way to place a new motion on the agenda before that motion so her motion can be discussed first. She told me she to wants the funding to be allocated towards a different item, so she wants her's discussed first. 

Per our Standing Rules:

8. **Association Meeting Agenda – At least fourteen (14) days notice, in writing, must be given to the president in order to have
an item of business or an announcement placed on the Association meeting agenda. (This allows the president time to prepare
the agenda and provide written notice to the members at least ten (10) days prior to the meeting).

9. Association Meeting Business Items – When a recommendation for an item of business or an announcement that has not had
prior consideration by the executive board is brought to an Association meeting, it shall be referred to a committee and/or the
executive board for study.

I told her it was not possible to add it before since its never been discussed previously by the Executive Board and would need to go under 'New Business'. I told her during the debate of the other motion, she could bring up her idea but that she could not amend the motion to gift the money to another item since it is not germane. 

I am guessing she might try to 'Take up Business out of its Proper Order' or 'Suspend the Rules' but can she make a new motion to allocate the funds towards something else before a motion that is on the agenda relating towards that money has been discussed? Should I motion to 'Adopt the Agenda' at the beginning of the meeting but I feel this is unnecessary since #8 in our Standing Rules covers this.

Looking for confirmation and guidance. 

 

[Atul Kapur]

The rule requiring notice cannot be suspended.

I'm not so certain that the amendment would be out of order. It is germane to the topic "what item should we use our money to help the school purchase?" This is a judgement call on the part of the chair and the chair could put it to the judgement of the assembly. See the wording on page 254, line 8 - p. 255, line 5 using an example that appears very similar to your situation.

[Guest Christina]

Thank you!

Which book are you referring to for germane? The Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised 11th Edition (paperback) does not have it on those pages . I found it on page 136 in my book though. The money to allocate the funds towards the specific item has been discussed at 4 board meetings and 1 association meeting to date. It has never been discussed to allocate the funds to anything other then the specific item. I feel like if the person amended it to another item, it would not be germane since the original item has been discussed so much and allocating it to something else has not and would change the motion altogether.  

Also, if the Executive Board amended the amount to allocate at a Board meeting, can the association further amend the amount to allocate lower or higher or is that only not allowed for bylaw changes?

[Nathan Zook]

I really have a problem with the idea that an amendment to change the dollar amount is not germane.  To take that position seems tantamount to saying that the body is limited to an up-or-down vote, which it clearly is not.

As for changing the target of the donation with no earlier discussion, this feels impolitic.  I agree with the prior response that this amendment is technically in order.  However, such a ruling might well raise the ire of some of the members.  Since any member has the right to challenge the ruling, and the chair has a duty to maintain the appearance, as well as the fact, of impartiality, I think you would be well advised to immediately turn the question of germaneness over to the body.

And I found sample language in RONR (11th ed) exactly on the pages specified.

[Atul Kapur]

On 5/29/2020 at 5:45 PM, Atul Kapur said:

I'm not so certain that the amendment would be out of order. It is germane to the topic "what item should we use our money to help the school purchase?" This is a judgement call on the part of the chair and the chair could put it to the judgement of the assembly. See the wording on page 254, line 8 - p. 255, line 5 using an example that appears very similar to your situation.

 

4 hours ago, Guest Christina said:

Which book are you referring to for germane? The Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised 11th Edition (paperback) does not have it on those pages

I was referring to the concept of the chair giving the assembly the decision on whether the amendment is germane. This section I quoted gives the following example:

"CHAIR: Mr. Downey raises a point of order that the amendment is not germane to the resolution. The chair is in doubt and submits the question to the assembly. The resolution is [reading it]. The proposed amendment is [reading it]. The question is, “Is the amendment germane to the resolution?”

and follows with the wording for putting the question to a vote and announcing the results.

4 hours ago, Guest Christina said:

I feel like if the person amended it to another item, it would not be germane since the original item has been discussed so much and allocating it to something else has not and would change the motion altogether.  

A motion can be amended until it is adopted (and sometimes even afterwards). The amount of discussion you've had until now doesn't affect that (and the board discussions are of no concern at the association meeting). In fact, if you've been discussing it so much without reaching a decision, I could argue that an amendment may be just the thing to help you arrive at a decision by giving you a more acceptable option.

The question of whether it would "change the motion altogether" goes back to germaneness. If you use my definition of the topic of the motion, "what item should we use our money to help the school purchase?" then I would say the amendment is germane.

If you say that the topic of the motion is, for example, "shall we help the school purchase this one particular item only?" then you could say the amendment is not germane. If you are unsure, or the person who moves the amendment appeals your decision, then the assembly gets to decide (and we're back to first base or, if you're not an Abbott and Costello fan, back to p. 254).

4 hours ago, Guest Christina said:

Also, if the Executive Board amended the amount to allocate at a Board meeting, can the association further amend the amount to allocate lower or higher or is that only not allowed for bylaw changes?

Who's making the decision? If it is the Association, then the association can amend the motion any way they want within the limits of (a) the notice given for the meeting, and (b) the limits of germaneness as discussed above. I haven't read your bylaws and special rules but it sounds like the amount may not be amended above $ 5k depending on the details of the notice given to the members.

Edited June 2, 2020 at 07:51 AM by Atul Kapur

[Guest Christina]

Great, thank you!

I am very new to this so I really appreciate your help and feedback!