Not Calling for All Opposed

[Mike Phillips]

The bylaws of the organization do not speak to these questions. A certain committee is created in the bylaws. The organization is governed by RONR absent rules to the contrary in the bylaws. Presumably the committee is likewise governed by RONR. The committee takes action by receiving motions and calling for votes. Otherwise, the actions of the committee, to date, are unacceptably informal.

When the chair of the committee calls for a vote, she always says, "All in favor, say 'aye'". She never calls for the opposing votes. Until the last meeting, no one has objected. None of the votes require greater than a majority. The committee is meeting weekly to handle some annual matters. Dissention is now rising in the committee because of some very childish actions and antics being taken. 

What is the effect of the chair not calling for opposing votes? My reading of RONR (below) is that the vote was improper and the motion was not properly passed. However, any objection to the failure to follow the rules must have been made before the meeting adjourned. Is my reading correct? Going forward, if the chair fails to call for the opposing vote or fails to adopt the motion by unanimous consent, a point of order will be raised. 

Quote

4:35   ...In putting the question by any of these methods, the chair calls first for the affirmative vote, and all who wish to vote in favor of the motion so indicate in the manner specified; then he calls for the negative vote. The chair must always call for the negative vote, no matter how nearly unanimous the affirmative vote may appear, except that this rule is commonly relaxed in the case of noncontroversial motions of a complimentary or courtesy nature; but even in such a case, if any member objects, the chair must call for the negative vote. 

4:37        Form for taking a voice vote. A vote by voice is the regular method of voting on any motion that does not require more than a majority vote for its adoption (see 1:6; 44). In taking a voice vote, the chair puts the question by saying, “The question is on the adoption of the motion to [or “that”]… [repeating or clearly identifying the motion]. Those in favor of the motion, say aye. [Pausing for response.]… Those opposed, say no.” 

Is making a point of order the proper way for a member to cause the chair to follow RONR?

[Josh Martin]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:50 AM, Mike Phillips said:

What is the effect of the chair not calling for opposing votes? My reading of RONR (below) is that the vote was improper and the motion was not properly passed. However, any objection to the failure to follow the rules must have been made before the meeting adjourned. Is my reading correct?

Yes, I think this is generally correct, although I would clarify that the window of time in which the Point of Order may be raised is even shorter than what you suggest.

"The general rule is that if a question of order is to be raised, it must be raised promptly at the time the breach occurs." RONR (12th ed.) 23:5

On 4/10/2022 at 8:50 AM, Mike Phillips said:

Is making a point of order the proper way for a member to cause the chair to follow RONR?

Yes.

[Atul Kapur]

On 4/10/2022 at 9:50 AM, Mike Phillips said:

Is making a point of order the proper way for a member to cause the chair to follow RONR?

Yes. However, depending on the relationship with the chair, it may be more effective to educate the chair outside of the meeting as to the proper procedure.

[Mike Phillips]

On 4/10/2022 at 11:04 AM, Atul Kapur said:

Yes. However, depending on the relationship with the chair, it may be more effective to educate the chair outside of the meeting as to the proper procedure.

Yes, of course. However, the relationship with this chair is not good. She has a long history of being above the rules. 

[Atul Kapur]

Well in that case, you may want to do more than just be ready to make a point of order when the time comes. From what you say, it sounds likely that the chair will find your point not well taken and you will need to appeal from the ruling of the chair. An appeal requires a second and is voted upon by the membership. It sounds like the membership has tolerated this behavior for some time, so you may need to do some education of the membership before the next meeting, or recruit like-minded allies from the membership. Because if you lose the appeal, there is no RONR police to call upon enforce the rules.

[Mike Phillips]

Excellent suggestions. Thanks for taking the time.