amending a tradition or custom

[rockbust]

Our society wrote a procedure guide that contained both customs and standing rules. The standing rules are motions adopted by our society and the other information is the way things are mostly done. 

Does it take a 2/3 vote to amend both customs and standing rules.  2:25 mentions customs and written rules. would a custom that is written down as in our procedure guide become a "rule" and require a 2/3 vote to amend as if it is a standing rule or is it a custom that can be changed by a majority vote?

[Josh Martin]

On 10/12/2023 at 9:33 PM, rockbust said:

Our society wrote a procedure guide that contained both customs and standing rules. The standing rules are motions adopted by our society and the other information is the way things are mostly done. 

Were the customs in this guide ever adopted by the assembly?

On 10/12/2023 at 9:33 PM, rockbust said:

Does it take a 2/3 vote to amend both customs and standing rules.  2:25 mentions customs and written rules. would a custom that is written down as in our procedure guide become a "rule" and require a 2/3 vote to amend as if it is a standing rule or is it a custom that can be changed by a majority vote?

The assumption inherent in 2:25 is that customs are unwritten. Conceivably, however, I suppose an organization could, as yours has done, compile a list of certain customs of the organization. Writing a custom down, in and of itself, does not make something a rule.

The key is whether these customs were adopted by the assembly. If so, they are now standing rules. If not, they are customs, and the rules pertaining to customs are applicable.

I would note that writing a "procedure guide" which contains both customs and standing rules is highly likely to lead to confusion in this matter. I would strongly advise that 1) all of the customs be placed in a separate section and 2) a notation is added indicating that these are not rules adopted by the assembly, but are instead simply a description of the society's customs.

In the alternative, perhaps it would be desirable to formally adopt some or all of these customs as rules.

I would also note that RONR does not really say a custom can be "changed" by a majority vote. Rather, what it says is as follows:

"In some organizations, a particular practice may sometimes come to be followed as a matter of established custom so that it is treated practically as if it were prescribed by a rule. If there is no contrary provision in the parliamentary authority or written rules of the organization, such an established custom is adhered to unless the assembly, by a majority vote, agrees in a particular instance to do otherwise." RONR (12th ed.) 2:25, emphasis added

A custom isn't a rule. And therefore the procedures for "changing" customs are not as formalized as the procedures for changing rules. (Keep in mind again, that customs are generally unwritten - your society is an outlier in this regard.) Choosing to deviate from a custom in a particular case does not necessarily indicate that the assembly wishes to permanently change the custom. There really isn't any way for an assembly to vote to permanently change a custom, except by adopting a rule which will supersede the custom. I suppose the other way would be for the society to repeatedly choose to deviate from the custom and, over time, establish a new custom. (Doing something once isn't much of a custom.)

I would also clarify that standing rules do not necessarily require a 2/3 vote for their amendment. Amending a standing rule requires a 2/3 vote, a vote of a majority of the entire membership, or a majority vote with previous notice.

Edited October 13, 2023 at 10:58 AM by Josh Martin

[rockbust]

On 10/13/2023 at 6:56 AM, Josh Martin said:

Were the customs in this guide ever adopted by the assembly?

The assumption inherent in 2:25 is that customs are unwritten. Conceivably, however, I suppose an organization could, as yours has done, compile a list of certain customs of the organization. Writing a custom down, in and of itself, does not make something a rule.

The key is whether these customs were adopted by the assembly. If so, they are now standing rules. If not, they are customs, and the rules pertaining to customs are applicable.

I would note that writing a "procedure guide" which contains both customs and standing rules is highly likely to lead to confusion in this matter. I would strongly advise that 1) all of the customs be placed in a separate section and 2) a notation is added indicating that these are not rules adopted by the assembly, but are instead simply a description of the society's customs.

In the alternative, perhaps it would be desirable to formally adopt some or all of these customs as rules.

I would also note that RONR does not really say a custom can be "changed" by a majority vote. Rather, what it says is as follows:

"In some organizations, a particular practice may sometimes come to be followed as a matter of established custom so that it is treated practically as if it were prescribed by a rule. If there is no contrary provision in the parliamentary authority or written rules of the organization, such an established custom is adhered to unless the assembly, by a majority vote, agrees in a particular instance to do otherwise." RONR (12th ed.) 2:25, emphasis added

A custom isn't a rule. And therefore the procedures for "changing" customs are not as formalized as the procedures for changing rules. (Keep in mind again, that customs are generally unwritten - your society is an outlier in this regard.) Choosing to deviate from a custom in a particular case does not necessarily indicate that the assembly wishes to permanently change the custom. There really isn't any way for an assembly to vote to permanently change a custom, except by adopting a rule which will supersede the custom. I suppose the other way would be for the society to repeatedly choose to deviate from the custom and, over time, establish a new custom. (Doing something once isn't much of a custom.)

I would also clarify that standing rules do not necessarily require a 2/3 vote for their amendment. Amending a standing rule requires a 2/3 vote, a vote of a majority of the entire membership, or a majority vote with previous notice.

Thank you for the detailed reply.