Discipline of a member for actions taken during a previous meeting

[U. N. Owen]

§63 of the 12th edition makes a delineation between offenses conducted during a meeting and outside of a meeting.  It appears that the process of a trial is used for offenses outside of a meeting to allow the body to establish what is true and what is not true, since the members would not have first hand knowledge of the offenses in question.

In the event of offenses which occurred at a previous meeting of the body of an organization, would it be proper to make a disciplinary motion at a future meeting, or would that require a trial?

For example, and assuming there are no bylaws regarding discipline:

Two meetings of the same body.  Meeting #1 and Meeting #2 four months later. They are separate sessions and not continuations of the same meeting.

At meeting #1, a member uses offensive language and hurls insults at another member.  No motion to discipline the member is made during meeting #1 and the meeting adjourns with no disciplinary action taken.  Four months later, meeting #2 is called to order.  During meeting #2, a member asks to be recognized to make a motion to discipline the member for their activity during Meeting #1.

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Is a motion to discipline the offending member in order during meeting #2? If so, what levels of discipline would be in order?

Is a motion to discipline the offending member OUT OF order during meeting #2?  If so, will an investigative committee report and formal trial process be required to apply discipline?

 

Thank you.

[Gary Novosielski]

See:

61:13
Although the chair has no authority to impose a penalty or to order the offending member removed from the hall, the assembly has that power. It should be noted in this connection that in any case of an offense against the assembly occurring in a meeting, there is no need for a formal trial provided that any penalty is imposed promptly after the breach (cf. 23:5), since the witnesses are all present and make up the body that is to determine the penalty.

I think I am safe in saying that four months later is other than promptly.

[Josh Martin]

On 2/15/2024 at 12:46 PM, U. N. Owen said:

§63 of the 12th edition makes a delineation between offenses conducted during a meeting and outside of a meeting.  It appears that the process of a trial is used for offenses outside of a meeting to allow the body to establish what is true and what is not true, since the members would not have first hand knowledge of the offenses in question.

Yes, that's correct.

On 2/15/2024 at 12:46 PM, U. N. Owen said:

In the event of offenses which occurred at a previous meeting of the body of an organization, would it be proper to make a disciplinary motion at a future meeting, or would that require a trial?

To the extent that disciplinary procedures are still in order at all, it would require a trial.

"In addition, even when improper conduct occurs at a meeting, in order for disciplinary action to be taken other than promptly after the breach occurs, charges must be preferred and a formal trial held. However, the only way in which a member may be disciplined for words spoken in debate is through the procedure described in 61:10–18, which may be employed only promptly after the breach occurs. In some societies (depending on particular provisions of the bylaws, as explained in 62), the same steps must also be employed if an officer of the society is to be removed from office. The procedures governing all such cases are described in detail in 63." RONR (12th ed.) 61:22

On 2/15/2024 at 12:46 PM, U. N. Owen said:

Two meetings of the same body.  Meeting #1 and Meeting #2 four months later. They are separate sessions and not continuations of the same meeting.

At meeting #1, a member uses offensive language and hurls insults at another member.  No motion to discipline the member is made during meeting #1 and the meeting adjourns with no disciplinary action taken.  Four months later, meeting #2 is called to order.  During meeting #2, a member asks to be recognized to make a motion to discipline the member for their activity during Meeting #1.

Were the offensive language and insults spoken at a time when the member properly had the floor and was speaking in debate?

On 2/15/2024 at 12:46 PM, U. N. Owen said:

Is a motion to discipline the offending member in order during meeting #2? If so, what levels of discipline would be in order?

No.

The assembly, could, however, adopt a non-disciplinary motion to censure.

On 2/15/2024 at 12:46 PM, U. N. Owen said:

Is a motion to discipline the offending member OUT OF order during meeting #2?

Yes.

On 2/15/2024 at 12:46 PM, U. N. Owen said:

If so, will an investigative committee report and formal trial process be required to apply discipline?

If the comments in question were spoke during debate, no discipline may be applied at this time, period.

If the comments in question were not spoken during debate, then discipline may be applied, but only through the formal disciplinary procedures.

[U. N. Owen]

Thank you both.  This provides the clarity I needed.