Role as Interim Secretary?

[Guest Worldmingler]

Hi there.

Our org has 2 Secretary positions: one vacant, the other filled just a few months ago by a board member, "M." 

After 2 months, M went out of country lfor the next 2 months, and I stepped in as Interim Secretary.

M is back, but off and on holiday until September. Not active but wants to know everything that’s going on.

There are decisions needing to be made and much work to do.

I’d like to keep my role as interim secretary for the next couple of months, at least until the AGM. (not sure if I can take on the official “secretary #2” role for the rest of my mandate). 

Could I keep the role? Would I still have exec committee privileges?

[Dan Honemann]

On 7/3/2024 at 12:08 PM, Guest Worldmingler said:

Hi there.

Our org has 2 Secretary positions: one vacant, the other filled just a few months ago by a board member, "M." 

After 2 months, M went out of country lfor the next 2 months, and I stepped in as Interim Secretary.

M is back, but off and on holiday until September. Not active but wants to know everything that’s going on.

There are decisions needing to be made and much work to do.

I’d like to keep my role as interim secretary for the next couple of months, at least until the AGM. (not sure if I can take on the official “secretary #2” role for the rest of my mandate). 

Could I keep the role? Would I still have exec committee privileges?

Are these two Secretary positions identical or do they have different responsibilities?  And how did you become "Interim Secretary"?  Do your bylaws provide for such a position?

[Gary Novosielski]

On 7/3/2024 at 12:08 PM, Guest Worldmingler said:

Could I keep the role? Would I still have exec committee privileges?

I'm not convinced you have them now.  Do your bylaws say that the Interim Secretary is an EC member?   Does it even provide for the office of Interim Secretary at all?

[Guest Worldmingler]

Our bylaws provide for 2 (identical) secretary positions. Secretary #2 role was an add-on at last year's AGM because #1 had too much work. Then both secretaries resigned within 1-2 months, and we remained without any for 5 mo. I was new to the org at the time... I since realized that RONR was new to many, and there was lots going on behind the scenes. Much work to be done. How I became interim? Proposed & carried at a meeting.

 

[Dan Honemann]

On 7/3/2024 at 2:44 PM, Guest Worldmingler said:

Our bylaws provide for 2 (identical) secretary positions. Secretary #2 role was an add-on at last year's AGM because #1 had too much work. Then both secretaries resigned within 1-2 months, and we remained without any for 5 mo. I was new to the org at the time... I since realized that RONR was new to many, and there was lots going on behind the scenes. Much work to be done. How I became interim? Proposed & carried at a meeting.

 

But there is no such thing as an "interim anything" in RONR, so the question is, do your bylaws provide for such an office, or, if not, what did the motion that was adopted say would be your duties and term in office?  Why weren't you just elected to the vacant office of Secretary? 

[Madame]

Well, that explains why I couldn't find anything about it in the RONR. I guess we all assumed that an interim position implied a temporary replacement? Perhaps "acting" would have been a better choice of words. In RONR, is there any reference to extended absences and how to replace them?

I'm far from my own copy until next week, else I'd scour it myself...

Still newbie-me (Worldmingler), BTW. Have been doing much reading but first time posting.

Edited July 3, 2024 at 07:30 PM by Madame
Name change

[Madame]

On 7/3/2024 at 3:15 PM, Dan Honemann said:

But there is no such thing as an "interim anything" in RONR, so the question is, do your bylaws provide for such an office, or, if not, what did the motion that was adopted say would be your duties and term in office?  Why weren't you just elected to the vacant office of Secretary? 

- They do not.

- Motion said I would take on her duties in her absence. Did not specify.

- I was extremely busy with my employment at the time and did not want to take on that responsibility for the remaining 15+ months of my mandate.

 

[Madame]

On 7/3/2024 at 3:15 PM, Dan Honemann said:

But there is no such thing as an "interim anything" in RONR, so the question is, do your bylaws provide for such an office, or, if not, what did the motion that was adopted say would be your duties and term in office?  Why weren't you just elected to the vacant office of Secretary? 

 

On 7/3/2024 at 2:43 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

I'm not convinced you have them now.  Do your bylaws say that the Interim Secretary is an EC member?   Does it even provide for the office of Interim Secretary at all?

Apologies if I'm getting responses mixed up. I do appreciate all of you responding! Our bylaws do state that both secretaries are part of the EC.

[Madame]

On 7/3/2024 at 3:42 PM, Madame said:

 

Apologies if I'm getting responses mixed up. I do appreciate all of you responding! Our bylaws do state that both secretaries are part of the EC.

...but nothing at all about interim positions. Interim positions are non-existent in our bylaws. 

[Dan Honemann]

On 7/3/2024 at 3:28 PM, Madame said:

Well, that explains why I couldn't find anything about it in the RONR. I guess we all assumed that an interim position implied a temporary replacement? Perhaps "acting" would have been a better choice of words. In RONR, is there any reference to extended absences and how to replace them?

I'm far from my own copy until next week, else I'd scour it myself...

 

In 47:11(3), RONR, 12th ed., says:

"If the assembly is to elect a chairman pro tem to hold office beyond the current session (in the event that the president and the vice-presidents are unable to perform their duties for that length of time), notice must be given at the preceding meeting or in the call of the meeting at which such election is held." 

Although this relates to the offices of President and Vice-President, I see no reason why it could not also be applicable to the office of Secretary.  The trouble is, if the previous notice required by this rule was not given prior to your election, your election will be null and void.

[Madame]

I see... I think. So to fill (any?) vacant position, notice must be given at the previous meeting, in the form of-

[Volunteer X] will be (running for?) the position of [Vacant position] at the next meeting... 

 

[Dan Honemann]

On 7/3/2024 at 4:00 PM, Madame said:

I see... I think. So to fill (any?) vacant position, notice must be given at the previous meeting, in the form of-

[Volunteer X] will be (running for?) the position of [Vacant position] at the next meeting... 

 

Yes, either at the immediately preceding meeting or in the notice of that meeting.  This applies to an election to fill a vacancy in any office.  

[Atul Kapur]

On 7/3/2024 at 3:44 PM, Dan Honemann said:

In 47:11(3), RONR, 12th ed., says:

"If the assembly is to elect a chairman pro tem to hold office beyond the current session (in the event that the president and the vice-presidents are unable to perform their duties for that length of time), notice must be given at the preceding meeting or in the call of the meeting at which such election is held." 

Although this relates to the offices of President and Vice-President, I see no reason why it could not also be applicable to the office of Secretary.  The trouble is, if the previous notice required by this rule was not given prior to your election, your election will be null and void.

But 47:20 tells us that this just applies to the meeting-presiding duties of the president and does not assign any of the administrative duties. I believe that this would also apply to the secretary (I am assuming that there are many administrative duties assigned to the secretary in this group, given that they appear to be so onerous that they need two secretaries and can't find people to fill the two positions.)

[Dan Honemann]

On 7/3/2024 at 7:28 PM, Atul Kapur said:

But 47:20 tells us that this just applies to the meeting-presiding duties of the president and does not assign any of the administrative duties. I believe that this would also apply to the secretary (I am assuming that there are many administrative duties assigned to the secretary in this group, given that they appear to be so onerous that they need two secretaries and can't find people to fill the two positions.)

Yes, I agree that this same restriction  would apply.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 7/3/2024 at 3:42 PM, Madame said:

 

Apologies if I'm getting responses mixed up. I do appreciate all of you responding! Our bylaws do state that both secretaries are part of the EC.

But from what you've stated so far, it does not appear that you were either of those secretaries, and so were not a part of the EC.

I'd also comment on the inadvisability of having two identical secretarial offices.  Consider that when the job of the secretary becomes large enough to be divided, the most common solution is to have an office of Corresponding Secretary and one of Recording Secretary, allowing for division of duties in a logical fashion.

[Madame]

Got it. And I completely agree about the inadvisability of having two identical offices. Many issues with this org all the way down to its bylaws, which contradict themselves... there's a lot of work to be done. The org setup, management & operations are much like a DIY electrical job. Good intentions, potentially explosive outcome.

[Gary Novosielski]

Gotcha.

Welcome to membership.