Definition of Ex Officio

[hawk49]

Our bylaws were written in 1983 and, unfortunately, they reference Robert's Rules of Order, Revised shall be used rather than state the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order shall be used. A squabble came up recently because we are using the latest Robert's Rules of Order and we are using the current definition for Ex Officio members. Was the definition for Ex Officio member back in 1983 the same as it is today, especially with voting rights?

[Tim Wynn]

Our bylaws were written in 1983 and, unfortunately, they reference Robert's Rules of Order, Revised shall be used rather than state the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order shall be used. A squabble came up recently because we are using the latest Robert's Rules of Order and we are using the current definition for Ex Officio members. Was the definition for Ex Officio member back in 1983 the same as it is today, especially with voting rights?

The version you mention spans from 1915 to 1951. It might be time for an update to your bylaws. I don't have a copy from that time period (cretaceous, was it?).

[hmtcastle]

Our bylaws were written in 1983 and, unfortunately, they reference Robert's Rules of Order, Revised shall be used rather than state the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order shall be used. A squabble came up recently because we are using the latest Robert's Rules of Order and we are using the current definition for Ex Officio members. Was the definition for Ex Officio member back in 1983 the same as it is today, especially with voting rights?

Per the current edition of RONR (p. ii), the language in your bylaws is sufficient to authorize the use of the current (10th) edition.

In any case, I doubt the definition of ex-officio was any different in the previous edition, not will it be any different in the next edition.

[Tim Wynn]

Per the current edition of RONR (p. ii), the language in your bylaws is sufficient to authorize the use of the current (10th) edition.

I was unaware that we were aware of the language in hawk49's bylaws.

[hmtcastle]

I was unaware that we were aware of the language in hawk49's bylaws.

"Our bylaws were written in 1983 and, unfortunately, they reference Robert's Rules of Order, Revised shall be used rather than state the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order shall be used."

[David A Foulkes]

Per the current edition of RONR (p. ii), the language in your bylaws is sufficient to authorize the use of the current (10th) edition.

In any case, I doubt the definition of ex-officio was any different in the previous edition, not will it be any different in the next edition.

I was unaware that we were aware of the language in hawk49's bylaws.

The blurb on the bottom of page ii (that's those two little lowercase i's, not 11) should help, barring specific version reference in the bylaws.

[hmtcastle]

The blurb on the bottom of page ii (that's those two little lowercase i's, not 11) should help, barring specific version reference in the bylaws.

And, in RONR, the Roman numerals are actually uppercase but, depending on the font, that would look even more like "11". So I opted for lowercase.

[David A Foulkes]

And, in RONR, the Roman numerals are actually uppercase ...

Interesting, that, although I've only ever noticed them in other books as lowercase, so I went with it. And of course, in my paperback version the first such marked page is VII, so finding page II takes (if only) a teeny backwards effort.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

Our bylaws were written in 1983 and, unfortunately, they reference Robert's Rules of Order, Revised shall be used rather than state the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order shall be used.

A squabble came up recently because we are using the latest Robert's Rules of Order and we are using the current definition for Ex Officio members.

Was the definition for Ex Officio member back in 1983 the same as it is today, especially with voting rights?

The edition which was in print in the year 1983 was the 8th (1981) edition.

You'll find that ALL editions between 1970 (7th) up to today's (10th, 2000) are nearly identical in wording and format.

The tweaks between editions are modest.

To answer your question about "ex officio":

Between 1980's 8th ed. and 2000's 10th ed., there is no difference on the meaning, and status, of "ex officio members."

To answer your second question:

An ex officio member can vote.

Why? Because the rule is MEMBERS VOTE.

And an ex officio (Latin for "through the office") member is just as much a full member as one who was elected, appointed, or paid dues, for the body on which the ex officio member sits.

It is a popular MYTH that "Ex officio members cannot vote." - You won't find this idea in any edition of Robert's Rules of Order.

* * *

And, for goodness sakes, don't fall into the trap of thinking, "The phrase 'ex officio' refers to former officers."

Many posters mistakenly call their past presidents "ex officio". - This is a self-inflicted headache.

[hawk49]

Kim and everybody else who participated. Thank you very much for the fast responses. Page ii was a perfect match for our bylaws and the 10th edition is applicable which solved this dilemna. Kim, your historical background piece was extremely helpful providing a bigger picture of what we are dealing with. It is not essential to have to amend our bylaws but it would be helpful for future references.