Failure to Vote on a Main Motion

[Confused]

Hi everyone,

Boy do we need some advice. I apologize in advance, as this is going to sound like an afternoon soap opera!

At the last meeting of our non-profit organization, I brought up a sensitive issue that had at a previous meeting been argued about (but never voted on). On this night I made a motion regarding this sensitive topic, and another member immediately seconded the motion. Knowing that this was a sensitive subject, I requested the vote be done by secret ballot. What ensued was a complete breakdown in control, wherein two members that were opposed to this motion arose and began yelling and shouting their disapproval. One even went so far as to offer his resignation, and proceeded to exit the building. Another began packing up their belongings, with a similar intent to leave, accusing my request for the secret ballot as 'the coward's way to vote'. All the while the President attempted to regain control, and even reminded everyone that there was a motion on the floor which necessitated a vote, but to no avail. There was too much turmoil. What followed was a lengthy discussion on the fact that the board was struggling to get along in recent months.

Most of the membership felt very intimidated by the outbursts, and therefore were hesitant (okay they were afraid) to bring up the issue of the motion on the floor, including the President, who didn't mention it again. After a lengthy period of time, and discussion about everything EXCEPT the motion, it was obvious to the me that no one was going to address it, so in an attempt to bring about some peace, I rescinded my motion. This was not seconded, nor voted on either. Minutes later the meeting was adjourned.

Yes, I know we REALLY screwed up. But we were all so shell-shocked at the angry outbursts that many just didn't know how to handle it. Adding to the drama, the adult man who offered his resignation was fighting back tears as he left, and all the other board members knew it.

In my opinion, the outburst was just a diversionary tactic to prevent the vote from taking place. And it worked. I'm sorry now I didn't stand firm and demand a vote.

So here are my questions:

1. What happens when there is such complete chaos that prevents a vote from taking place? Is their any kind of sanction that can be brought upon the 2 members that caused such turmoil?

2. Was my motion to rescind my motion legal? If not, then is my original motion still 'active'?

3. If the original motion is still active, is that other meeting still open?

Important to note - the motion I made did not violate our by-laws in any way. We have a meeting Monday night and I'm trying to determine where we stand.

I sure would appreciate any help and advice you good folks can give me. I've tried to look on the internet to find answers but cannot find a similar situation! Likewise, reading Robert's Rules is almost hopelessly difficult. You must first learn another language before reading the book!

thank you in advance,

trying to do the right thing.....

[hmtcastle]

So here are my questions:

1. What happens when there is such complete chaos that prevents a vote from taking place? Is their any kind of sanction that can be brought upon the 2 members that caused such turmoil?

2. Was my motion to rescind my motion legal? If not, then is my original motion still 'active'?

3. If the original motion is still active, is that other meeting still open?

Likewise, reading Robert's Rules is almost hopelessly difficult. You must first learn another language before reading the book!

You must realize that much of what you wrote is irrelevant.

And the only (other) language that you must learn in order to understand RONR is English.

That said,

1. Members who violate the rules of decorum can be disciplined. See Chapter XX.

2. No. You can't make a motion to rescind a motion that wasn't adopted.

3. The original motion might still be pending and, if so, would come up at the next meeting as Unfinished Business. Or you could just cut your losses and start over. Without the soap opera dramatics.

[Confused]

Maybe it was irrelevant, but I did think some would enjoy the drama!!!

Is it legal to close a meeting, or even make any further motions, while there is still a motion on the floor?

And lastly, can you please help me to find where I might find in writing, on Robert's Rules' web site, that I was out of order in rescinding my own motion?

thank-you!!!

[Kim Goldsworthy]

Maybe it was irrelevant, but I did think some would enjoy the drama!!!

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - No.

Is it legal to close a meeting, or even make any further motions, while there is still a motion on the floor?

Yes.

You may make a motion TO ADJOURN at any time. Even if a motion is currently on the floor.

Indeed, this is one scenario which The Book uses as the classic case of "unfinished business."

See page 229 under "Adjourn."

If a question was pending at the time of adjournment, it is taken up as the first item under unfinished business (or under special orders, if it was a special order)--resuming the question at exactly where it was previously interrupted.

[Confused]

well, thank-you, and no, I didn't really enjoy the drama either......I just didn't know how to give the short version.

[Guest I'm not Bob]

well, thank-you, and no, I didn't really enjoy the drama either......I just didn't know how to give the short version.

Stick around, you will.

[Guest Member]

well, thank-you, and no, I didn't really enjoy the drama either......I just didn't know how to give the short version.

I enjoyed the drama!

It makes me feel better about the utter nonsense and lack of civility at our own meetings.

It was mildly therapeutic.

[Josh Martin]

1. What happens when there is such complete chaos that prevents a vote from taking place? Is their any kind of sanction that can be brought upon the 2 members that caused such turmoil?

The members may be disciplined if the assembly feels it is appropriate. See RONR, 10th ed., Ch. XX.

2. Was my motion to rescind my motion legal? If not, then is my original motion still 'active'?

Well, the word you want is "withdraw," not "rescind," and you technically needed the assembly's permission to withdraw it. No one raised a Point of Order, however, so no, your motion is not still "active." You are, however, free to renew the motion at a later meeting.

3. If the original motion is still active, is that other meeting still open?

Your motion is not still "active," but even if it was, the other meeting would not still be open.

[Tim Wynn]

Is it legal to close a meeting, or even make any further motions, while there is still a motion on the floor?

Yes, the assembly can adjourn the meeting with a motion pending. Also, there are many other motions that can be made while a motion is pending.

And lastly, can you please help me to find where I might find in writing, on Robert's Rules' web site, that I was out of order in rescinding my own motion?

First, you weren't out of order. Your motion was. That's a big difference. As for a reference in Robert's Rules, you might get a better answer if you can provide some information about why you want to know and exactly what you want to do with this info. Are you trying to show the assembly that the motion should come up at the next meeting? Maybe it should; maybe it shouldn't. With all due respect to Mr. Martin's analysis, we don't know exactly what happened in the mayhem of this meeting.

If you want to introduce the motion again, you're free to do so at the next session. If the chair rules that it is scheduled to come up, due to the fact that it was pending when the previous meeting adjourned, it will be dealt with under Unfinished Business and General Orders, so you won't have to make it again. If he rules that it was withdrawn, you can move it under New Business. Either way, you get the same result.

[Confused]

Thanks for your responses. Our next meeting is tomorrow night and I need to be ready! I would prefer not to have to make the motion again, frankly it would be easier for me if I could stand Robert's Rules to back me in that the motion is still on the floor.

So... if the Chairman determine that it's still active, then it is. I do anticipate another outburst, but am prepared to stand firm this time and demand a vote be taken. It's difficult when there are members that are intimidated, and rarely offer anything during discussion on a motion.

I definitely need to have this vote taken by secret ballot, to allow the timid members to vote freely. I know they support what I am proposing, but they just don't have the nerve to raise their hand and show their vote.

Was I out of order to make the motion and included in the motion was my desire to take it by secret ballot? Does that need to be a separate motion, or can the Chairman determine that it can be included? We've done voting by secret ballot before, and never voted on it....was that in error? maybe, but that's what we've done.

Shame on us that we've not taken parlimentary procedure more seriously, but many of our members are plain folk, without a desire to learn it.

I love this site - thanks everyone for your help!!!!

[Josh Martin]

Was I out of order to make the motion and included in the motion was my desire to take it by secret ballot? Does that need to be a separate motion, or can the Chairman determine that it can be included? We've done voting by secret ballot before, and never voted on it....was that in error?

The motion to vote by secret ballot should be a separate motion, made while the original motion is pending. Such a motion is not debatable and requires a majority vote for adoption. It is quite common for the method of voting to be determined by unanimous consent, so the past practice is not improper, however, if a member objects, a vote must be taken.