Gary Novosielski
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Posts posted by Gary Novosielski
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On 2/22/2024 at 12:48 PM, Louise Dougherty said:
We are Edison Chapter #3446 of AARP
We will have a President and a Vice President stepping out of office. Both will still remain in the chapter. Both will no longer be officers. Do
they have the rights to vote on a matter. Or do they have to be voted back in as an officer?
Thank you,
Louise Dougherty
Treasurer
They have the right to vote in any body which they are still a member of, and not in any body which they are no longer a member of.
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Okay, in the words of the immortal Tom Lehrer, "If anyone disagrees with anything I say, I am quite prepared not only to retract it, but to deny under oath that I ever said it."
I had not taken 56:7 into account, and stand corrected. Er, I mean, that's what I meant to say. 😉
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On 2/22/2024 at 1:35 PM, Guest Anita Kober said:
I don't know if this is a Robert's Rules issue.
If a future meeting date is agreed upon at one meeting, can it be changed by anyone at a whim without notifying the entire committee, especially officers of an organization?
Perhaps unsurprisingly, No.
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On 2/21/2024 at 2:41 PM, Guest Mike F said:
Hi all,
As a small local (50 total) our 7 member E-Board has in its bylaws the ability to vote to have a "special meeting" for a single topic. At our previous week's meeting, this topic was discussed at length, and no motion to vote was called by members. With this matter being time sensitive, a week later our E-Board voted amongst themselves to not have a special meeting, but hold a department wide vote allowing each member to vote yea/nay on said topic. This was decided by our E-Board to be the best avenue since it allowed each member a voice and did so in a timely manner rather than posting a special meeting and waiting 7 days.
Is there anything in Robert's Rules that speaks to this procedure, our bylaws do not have anything.
Thank you for any help,
Mike
Yes, RONR speaks to such a procedure by prohibiting it, unless otherwise provided in the bylaws. The rules in RONR prohibit conducting business, except at a properly called or regularly scheduled meeting at which a quorum is present, i.e. together physically in the same space.
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On 2/21/2024 at 4:43 PM, Guest Audience Comments said:
In the past the committee meetings at our club allowed audience comments or questions after the meeting was adjourned. At the last meeting, I had questions (simple questions) and was told that they could not answer my questions because they were following Roberts Rule of Order. Is this true?
Please ask new questions by starting a new topic.
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On 2/21/2024 at 4:38 PM, Guest Deb said:
Can the chair of the meeting have a main motion on the agenda? And, if so, may they preside over the discussion if they do not participate in it?
How large is this body? Does the chair intend to move this motion at the meeting, or only to have it on the agenda, for someone else to move?
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On 2/21/2024 at 8:15 PM, Guest Doris said:
Can a chairman make a motion or second a motion based on a small board. This is in florida.
If the small board rules in RONR apply, the chair can participate fully in the proceedings of the board, including making motions. But under those rules, seconds are not required at all.
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On 2/22/2024 at 9:59 AM, Guest Mario said:
Also, if proxy voting/absentee ballots are NOT in the Federation bylaws but members of an individual Association would like it to be, a bylaw could be drafted and proposed by the Association members, right?
No, I don't think so. I disagree with Mr. Katz.
If the Federation bylaws do not mention proxy voting, but the Federation has adopted RONR as its parliamentary authority, then by doing so it has prohibited proxy voting in its bylaws. [See RONR (12th ed.) 45:71]
Therefore, the Individual Association may not adopt any conflicting provisions in its own bylaws.
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On 2/21/2024 at 9:34 AM, Joshua Katz said:
Well, I agree that that motion is a motion to amend something previously adopted. But I don't see how that's relevant to whether or not the minutes reflect who requested a change in the draft agenda to include it, which is not a motion to amend something previosly adopted, since the agenda had not been adopted.
I don't see how either. I assumed the minutes would record who actually made the motion in the meeting, and would not record who requested the change to the agenda prior to the meeting.
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RONRIB is not a suitable work to be used as a parliamentary authority.
Refer to RONRIB (3rd ed.) Page 7:
Because this book is only an introduction and guide to RONR, it is not itself suitable for adoption by any organization as its “parliamentary authority”—the book of rules the group names to govern its meeting procedure. If any organization designates this book as its parliamentary authority, it actually adopts the current edition of Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised.
So, your parliamentary authority is currently RONR 12th edition. You should get a copy, because there are many citations in RONRIB that will refer to to the official rule in RONR. It would be wise to amend your bylaws to use the recommended language:
The rules contained in the current edition of Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised shall govern the Society in all cases to which they are applicable and in which they are not inconsistent with these bylaws and any special rules of order the Society may adopt.
(The word Society, which appears twice, can of course be replaced by something more appropriate to how your organization refers to itself.)
There's no problem in using other books to better understand Robert's Rules, but it should be understood that the actual rule can reside in only one place. Currently that one place is RONR 12th ed. RONRIB and the Zimmerman book (I have not read the latter) may be useful, but not binding, if push comes to shove.
Dagnabbit, Dan beat me by 10 seconds.
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On 2/21/2024 at 8:42 AM, Derik Dautel said:
Thank you Mr. Honemann,
In the interest of brevity I left out some of the details that you might need to render an opinion. The body in question is an electric cooperative and the board and staff manage all aspects of the annual member meeting. The vacancy occurred after the 2023 Director election application deadline had passed, but before the election. The board declared the seat was vacant and that they would not put the seat up for election until 2024. Due to the timing of the board meetings the announcement that they had made this declaration went unpublished till ballots were printed. At that point, for all practical purposes the only remedy would be a rather expensive and time consuming special election for this seat. For decades this board had always declined their option to appoint, so it was only after they changed course after the election been completed did the membership cry "foul" over the action. The members were okay with the decision to not fill the seat as avoiding the special election and salary would save the cooperative over $60,000, but they are not okay with the board taking away their ability to vote on their representative.
In short, the argument is that it was the member's seat to leave open at that point, not the board's.
Well that changes things substantially, and it's unlikely that RONR's rules regarding elections and vacancies will apply in their default form.
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Yes, I agree with your interpretation. The partial-term vacancy only existed until the next election. In some societies it could be filled for the entire unexpired remainder of the original term, but your bylaws require an election at the next opportunity, whichever is sooner. So the board is incorrect, and the appointment was not proper. I believe this constitutes a continuing breach and so a Point of Order would still be timely so long as the improperly appointed person remains in place.
Since an election was required but never done, what you have at this point is an "incomplete election", which should be completed at the earliest opportunity. Fortunately, it appears that your bylaws allow this to be done at a special meeting called for this purpose. Be sure adequate prior notice of the election meeting is given in compliance with any prior notice time frame requirements in your bylaws.
Stay tuned for other (or concurring) opinions.
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On 2/20/2024 at 10:40 PM, Guest Ben said:
When using paper ballots, can individual not present text or email their votes in.
No.
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On 2/20/2024 at 10:26 PM, Joshua Katz said:
What does? To what does "it" refer?
It refers to the proposed resolution to insert some clarification into a previously adopted agreement.
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Does the language in the bylaws refer to a ballot vote? If so, a ballot vote is mandatory. If not, the assembly may choose another method.
If the rules in RONR apply, the nominating committee will, at some point, report its list of nominees to the membership, either at the annual meeting or some prior meeting of the membership. After the report is received, the chair must call for any additional nominations from the floor.
But if at that point there are still four nominees for four seats, and if the bylaws do not require a ballot vote, the chair simply declares that the four nominees are "elected by acclamation". There is no show of hands or other voting.
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On 2/18/2024 at 8:47 PM, Guest Jupiter05 said:
Do I have a right to demand the board member requesting the change be identified?
I don't know. I don't even know if you are a member.
It does sound like a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted. Items on an agenda typically do not identify who, if anyone, requested their inclusion, but when the meeting occurs, if you are permitted to attend, you can see who moves it or, if you have access to the minutes, you can find the identity of the actual mover there.
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On 2/20/2024 at 2:06 PM, Guest pebinnh said:
Does Robert's Rules have any restriction on board members getting together outside of the regularly scheduled meetings of an organization? Can several members permitted to have dinner together and discuss various topics of interest (without making an decisions)? Is this activity permissible by the latest edition of RONR?
RONR 12th edition has no such restriction (nor, to my knowledge, did any prior edition). However it is a common provision of most states' Open Public Meeting ("Sunshine") laws, where members—especially a quorum of members—of a public body, are restricted in one or more ways from "meeting" outside of a meeting. For legal advice, consult your attorney.
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Well, I suppose that a policy not to negotiate with terrorists can, strictly speaking, be complied with by total capitulation.
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It also depends on how the committee has been charged. In the default case, committees have no power to act independently, and only make recommendations to their parent body. In that case, the allocation of $10,000 to a committee would merely instruct them on the upper limit which the total cost of those recommendations may not exceed. Or perhaps the target amount which they are instructed to treat as a goal. It depends.
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On 2/20/2024 at 3:26 PM, Tomm said:
The intention, whether right or wrong, was simply include the approval of the agenda in the organizations order of business to insure that it get's approved, which has not always been done in the past.
Thanks for all your responses.
Well, if the intent was to give no weight to whether it was right or wrong, then I suppose you're on the right track.
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I don't know what sort of "council" this is. It appears that council members are elected, but by whom? Why would the council approve itself, if its members are elected? The fact that there is a "full membership" suggests that they are the ones who would do the electing.
So we have a "council" of some sort that has more than four members (?) but has four open seats. There are four volunteers (nominees), and no other nominees? Was there an opportunity for additional nominations? In any case, neither a) nor b) would be proper.
What do your bylaws say about electing council members? Is a ballot vote required? If so, is there an exception for uncontested seats? What do the bylaws say about nominations? How did the four volunteers get nominated? Was there a nominating committee?
You'll have to provide at least a minimum amount of additional information if you want a credible answer.
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On 2/19/2024 at 3:10 AM, Joshua Katz said:
As the great philosopher Panayot Buchvarov once said, why ought one to do what one ought to do? Because one ought to do it.
It's hard to argue with that, but by a two-thirds vote one could certainly suspend it.
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I'm not clear whether elections were required, and if so whether they took place.
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That's true, but nothing in that thread implies that you should use an agenda concurrent with either type of order of business, either the recommended one or a customized one (intentionally avoiding the terms standard or special).
Adjourn Board Meeting to Convene Committee Meeting?
in General Discussion
Posted
I'm not sure I'm seeing the point. Does this really save time and effort when compared to simply allowing the board to discuss and decide on these matters as a whole? I'm sure there may be reasons why this odd procedure came into being, and I am disinclined to advise you to simply do away with it, but if there are rules and authorities governing this, they're probably not going to be found in RONR.
A system I have seen work is to hold all committee meetings prior to the board meeting (even on different days if that's more convenient for the respective members). There is no need to have the board "convene" the committees. The committees can be permitted to schedule their own meetings, or the board could instruct them with a prescribed schedule. Then at the board meeting each committee could give its report, move its recommendations if any, and the board could simply move through each report in turn without adjourning between each one.
But the fact that you're asking the question indicates the current system may benefit from review and possible revision. RONR gives you considerable latitude to arrange things the way they work best.