Richard Brown

Initially, I thought a rule regarding signing ballots had been violated. However, upon rereading the original post, I agree with Mr. Savory that it is not clear that any rule was violated or that this “election committee“ had the authority to promulgate any such rule on its own or that the board itself approved the rule or even that it had the authority to do so.  An “instruction“ from a group of people not authorized to validly make a rule is not binding. 

However, if there was no way to verify that the unsigned ballots were submitted by members, rejecting those ballots may have still been appropriate.

Agreeing with Mr. Katz, exactly what method of balloting was utilized? Were there dual envelopes – an outer envelope and an inner envelope which contains the ballot? That is the normal way of conducting an election by ballot conducted outside of a meeting. The outer envelope is signed by the member who is voting or at least contains his name, the inner envelope contains the ballot and is sealed and is removed from the outer envelope when the ballot is returned, and the member is noted as having voted. 

I suspect from what you said that the election was properly conducted and that the election results stand.
 

On 5/3/2024 at 7:48 PM, Guest ParliaBarbie said:

how do we interpret this conflict?  

I agree with JJ that this is not really a conflict, but you are supposed to resolve the issue by having elections to elect new officers as soon as possible. It is not necessary that someone actually run for a position. Unless your bylaws prohibit it, you can have a nominating committee to attempt to nominate officers. In addition, you can and should take nominations from the floor. Someone might be nominated there. Third, someone can be elected by means of write-in votes, even if it’s only one vote. 

Members are frequently reluctant to “run” for an office, but if they are nominated and elected, they quite frequently agree to serve.

Your bylaws should not be interpreted as an invitation to just skip elections so that you can keep the same people in office.

BTW, I suspect you were paraphrasing what your bylaw say about term limits and serving until a successor is elected.  Can you quote the language on both of those points from your bylaws verbatim? A slight difference in wording can make a difference in our answers.

John, I agree with Dr. Kapur and Mr. Martin. In fact, before I read Dr. Kapur‘s response, I was going to say the same thing. Your clarification of the situation makes it easy, in my opinion. I might also add that the same interpretation is generally followed by the courts in my experience. When someone is ordered to do something within X number of days from the date an order is signed, the date of signing the order is considered day zero and the next day is day one. 

Agreeing with my colleagues, this is more a question of what YOUR rules say about the  resolutions committee and amending your bylaws than on what RONR says. 

Guest Cynthia, I agree with my colleagues. I will suggest that until this matter is resolved, it would be in your best interest to make notes yourself during the meetings or to ask a friendly board member to do so on your behalf. Also, it should not normally be necessary to have the minutes of the previous meeting in order to prepare for the next meeting. Why is it that it is so important to have these minutes in advance?

On 5/2/2024 at 5:13 PM, Josh Martin said:

Well, if the majority of the association is so concerned about these issues, then I would suggest they show up to the meetings so they can outvote the "grillers," and then that should settle that.

I agree.  That's what all of this seems to boil down to, at least from a parliamentary perspective. I think that earlier we clarified when the chair may vote.

On 5/2/2024 at 10:58 AM, Oezuwn said:

How would the presiding president know whether to vote or not until the end when all votes are tallied?

If the vote is by ballot, the president is not restricted from voting and casts his or her ballot along with everyone else.  It is when the vote is by other means such as a standing counted vote, raising hands, or roll call that the president does not vote unless his vote will affect the outcome. In those cases, he withholds his vote until it is known that it can affect the outcome, such as by breaking a tie, creating a tie, making two-thirds, or breaking two-thirds.

On 5/1/2024 at 8:11 PM, Joshua Katz said:

I'll be a bit more hesitant. The Provost has no such authority as a parliamentary matter. Whether he has such authority through other means is beyond the scope of this forum.

I agree.

I agree with Mr. Martin and Mr. honemann. Once the item is initially dealt with by, for example, referring it to a committee, there is no need to put it back on the agenda until the committee makes its report and recommends some particular action. Even then, it might not appear on the agenda as a separately listed item, but might be Reported as a recommendation by the committee chairman during committee reports earlier in the meeting before you get to new business.  So, it might only appear on the agenda once, when it first comes up and is referred to a committee. There is no need to list it on every agenda until it is finally disposed of. In fact, it should not be. Once is generally enough unless it is something that requires repeated follow up action by the assembly. 

On 5/1/2024 at 1:02 PM, Guest Sara Domínguez said:

A few people missed our most recent meeting because our corporation didn’t properly notify a few people that it would be occurring. A vote was also taken. Today the chairperson called me saying that we need our vote for the record. Is this within RONR to vote outside of a meeting?  

In addition to the answer provided by Mr. Martin, I will add that the original vote may well be invalid because of the failure to notify the entire membership of the meeting.  This is especially so if it was a special meeting.  If it was a regular monthly meeting, that might not be the case.  Do your rules require that members be sent notices of all meetings?

At any later meeting, you can use the motion "to amend (or rescind) something previously adopted".  Any member can make the motion, which must be seconded.  It can be adopted with a majority vote if previous notice of the motion is given.  Without previous notice, adoption requires a two-thirds vote or the vote of a majority of the entire membership. See section 35 in RONR (12th ed.).

Agreeing with my colleagues, I will add that you may ASK the secretary to produce a draft of the minutes for you or the board prior to the meeting, but the secretary has no obligation to oblige. 

Have you asked the secretary if it might be possible to provide you or the board with a draft of the minutes in advance of the meeting for you to use in preparing for the upcoming meeting?  If not, why not?  If so, what has the response been?

Based on the updated information, I agree with my colleagues.  Neither the provost nor anyone else has the authority to tell you when, where, or how your committee should meet.

Question:  Do motions have to be presented at the morning meeting first and then at the night meeting on the same day, or can a motion be presented first at a night meeting, and then voted on at the next morning meeting the following month?

Just out of curiosity, how are amendments handled? What if the night meeting wants to amend the motion that was voted on at the morning meeting?
 

On 4/30/2024 at 8:02 AM, Rob Elsman said:

The nomination is just a suggestion.  There is no need to withdraw it.  The electors are not obligated to vote for the nominee if they think it would be more advisable to vote for someone else.

I agree that there might not be a NEED to withdraw the nomination, but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible to withdraw it.  if te nomination is withdrawn by the member who made the nomination, that might have a significant influence on the votes ot the other members.

On 4/30/2024 at 8:57 AM, Guest GM5589 said:

She persists that because the congregation wasn’t given an original copy of the bylaws, it’s not valid. However, the attorney draft did refer to the sections. 

This is not a valid reason for declaring that adopted motions or amendments to your governing documents are invalid.  The fact that a copy might not have been available during the debate might be a reason for defeating or postponing the proposed change, but it is not a reason for declaring it invalid.

On 4/30/2024 at 7:38 AM, Guest Catherine Lavender said:

As the Chair of a committee, I have been ordered (not by the President) to hold meetings that were being held online during the pandemic as in-person meetings.

I agree with the response by Mr. Honemann and I have a question for you:  If it wasn’t the president, who ordered you to start holding in person committee meetings? Some other officer? The board of directors? The membership by means of a motion adopted at a membership meeting?

Like Mr. Martin, I do not understand what the issue/question is here.

Guest GM5588 can you elaborate?  We need more information.
 

On 4/29/2024 at 2:45 PM, Guest Janet Foster said:

Yes, the organization is incorporated. I have contacted the Secretary of State and was able to obtain the charter, but was notified that there were no bylaws on file. Thank you for your help! 

It has been my experience that a state Secretary Of State can almost always provide you with a copy of a corporate charter (articles of incorporation), but having a copy of the bylaws is not customary in the states I am familiar with.

On 4/29/2024 at 8:44 AM, Guest Janet Foster said:

From what we have been told by the Secretary, the bylaws were typed up using a computer, yet there is no digital copy and cannot find a hard copy (though we were told that it has been filed away).

"Filed away" where and by whom?

Guest Tim, what exactly do you mean by this question:

On 4/28/2024 at 10:42 AM, Guest Tim Snyder said:

Can the chair rescind or recall a secret ballot once it has been issued?

What exactly do you mean by "rescind or recall a secret ballot once it has been issued?  Rescind or recall it in what way?  And when?  At what point in the balloting process?

RONR is not really clear as to whether a nomination can be withdrawn... or at least not without the consent of the assembly.  The more common scenario is that nominations are re-opened (which may happen automatically if nominations are opened again at the election meeting) and someone else is nominated to insure that there are at least two candidates to choose from.  If the rules in RONR control, nominations from the floor are in order at the meeting at which the nominating committee makes its report and again at the election meeting if the two events happen at two separate meetings. 

Also, if RONR controls, write-in votes must be permitted at the election and it is quite possible for a "write-in" campaign to encourage members to write in the name of someone who was never officially nominated.

On 4/29/2024 at 12:29 PM, Wright Stuff said:

There will be two elections at our annual convention. There will be nominations and then a vote for the first office followed by nominations and then a vote for the second office. It will take a while to count the votes for the first election. Can we proceed with the second vote after everyone who wants to vote has voted (voting is closed) or do we have to wait for the votes of the first election to be counted and reported before proceeding with the second election?

The short answer is that yes, you can proceed with the second election once voting in the first election is closed.  As my colleagues have pointed out, there are pros and cons to each method.

@Wright Stuff I agree with Dr. Kapur’s analysis and also ask that you provide the exact wording of the bylaw language which purportedly requires that the IPP be elected to the executive committee at a convention in an odd number year.